To my readers who use Reddit

Would you please go over to this post and put your four cents in? This poor woman is struggling with a porn-using boyfriend and all of these dicks are telling her she’s an asshole for taking issue with it. I don’t think there’s any point in arguing with entitled porndogs, but I do think there’s value in letting this woman know she’s not alone and that there’s nothing wrong with her feelings. And that she should get rid of this clown.

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66 thoughts on “To my readers who use Reddit

  1. Damn. I so didn’t need to read that..but done.

    And you might want to consider adding a trigger warning to this post. That’s some seriously fucked up shit taking place over there.


  2. Faith wrote:
    “That’s some seriously fucked up shit taking place over there.”

    I may not agree with you on the original post, but I’m definitely with you here. Some of those comments… Well, it reminds me of why I avoid a lot of places on the internet.


      1. It was the thread of “Men know that the women in porn are worthless meatsacks, so you don’t have to worry about being compared to them” that really bothered me.


        1. Personally, I enjoyed the “porn isn’t real” comment. Because, you know, the human beings having sex on your screen are imaginary. Or something.


  3. “every woman that i have ever known has been insecure to a varying degree. i think it comes from the coolidge effect and a long evolutionary history of men seeking novelty and women seeking security.”

    Wow, somebody needs to be hit with a clue-by-four. Why is it that these dudes are so willing to look to evolution for everything and so unwilling to look at themselves?

    Then he goes on to refer to the women in porn as “trashy whores.” How eloquent.

    Sooner or later someone is going to pull that “men are more visual than women” crap. Even if it’s true, I call BS when anyone says he “needs” porn to get off.


      1. Probably not. It’s the pseudo-scientific term for the “Men crave variety; it’s in their genes!” myth favored by evo psych. Its origin (C&Ped from Wiki as I lack the comedic timing for the proper telling of this “joke”):

        The term comes from an old joke, according to which American President Calvin Coolidge and his wife allegedly visited a poultry farm. During the tour, Mrs. Coolidge inquired of the farmer how his farm managed to produce so many fertile eggs with such a small number of roosters. The farmer proudly explained that his roosters performed their duty dozens of times each day.

        “Perhaps you could point that out to Mr. Coolidge,” pointedly replied the First Lady.

        The President, overhearing the remark, asked the farmer, “Does each rooster service the same hen each time?”

        “No,” replied the farmer, “there are many hens for each rooster.”

        “Perhaps you could point that out to Mrs. Coolidge,” replied the President.


        1. Ha ha my favourite Coolidge joke is whoever it was (think it was Dorothy Parker, but I could be wrong) who was told that Coolidge was dead and replied “How can they tell?”


          1. Mine is a “true” story where these people have dinner with President Coolidge and have no idea how to behave, so they just followed his lead. They end up doing exactly as he does, even when he pours milk into a dish–which he then puts on the floor for the cat.


    1. The security argument doesn’t even make sense in terms of evolution: it’s really stupid to assume that the men of our ancestors didn’t seek security in a world where they could so easily die.


  4. Forgive the double post, but I just wanted to say I almost banged my head against the desk when I read, “It hurts a guy to feel like something that he enjoys is hurting the person he cares about- so rather then fighting it, I suggest attempting to embrace it.”


  5. A man that has been stripped of his porn is only half a man…

    Which half though? Interesting to note the assumption that a woman who objects to men watching porn must be *jealous*.


  6. Dear Reddit, My boyfriend watches porn, it bothers me, and I’m in need of your testosterone-induced opinion.

    Actually, I think that’s this lady’s problem. She doesn’t need any porn-addicted victim-blaming misogynist idiot’s input into her own relationship. She doesn’t need a dude to validate her own misgivings. Shit like this drives me up the wall. Who the fuck cares what men think of your dislike of porn or penchant for porn or bisexuality or asexuality or fatness or thinness? Fuck those neanderthals. What that lady needs is a relationship with someone whose concerns are not centered solely around their scrotal sack; a relationship with someone who gives a shit about her.

    I don’t have a Reddit acount, but that’s about the gist of what I would say. Why bother giving two shits about a man whose thinks his self-entitlement and viewership of is more important than the actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling human being he is supposedly in a relationship with?

    I especially like the guy down post who whines about how hard it is to have sex with another human being. It’s so exhausting, don’t you know, to think about more than your own prick and balls. I really think that women need to open their ears and really listen to this shit. There’s a big portion of the male population in America that prefers for sex to be all about them. In fact, they happily fund one of the biggest industries in the country solely do they don’t have to give a shit about the sexual satisfaction or feelings of another human being.

    Sex and masturbation is all about them and what people can do for them. It’s not about intimacy, love, affection, fun, playfulness, or mutual satisfaction. It’s about ease, convenience, voyeurism, consumption, and when you’re done, discarding. Sometimes it’s about pain, exploitation, abuse, torture, and rape.

    For shit’s sake, why the hell would anyone want to have a sexual relationship with someone incapable of thinking beyond their own prick or someone who thinks it too bothersome to do so?


  7. Oh my God, why do I read user comments on anything? This is atrocious.
    “Every guy watches porn. It’s built into our genetics.” Ah, yes, genetics… Like the noble caveman, scratching images of cock-hungry sluts on the walls of the Lascaux caves, modern man acts out the urge to see barely-legal teen facials that has been part of his very nature for time immemorial. It’s really quite heroic, when you think about it.


  8. I am amused, in a grim sort of way, by the dudes who use porn but are at pains to stress that hey – that doesn’t mean I actually find these women ATTRACTIVE.

    I was on a bus yesterday and there were two dudes who no doubt thought they very cool (ie they were dressed in crappy skater gear, had dodgy facial hair and one of them looked about 40) looking through a copy of “front” magazine. Reading over their shoulder (it’s a bad habit) I was looking at the “Alt girls” section – it’s soft porn but it’s ALTERNATIVE soft porn- and was amused by the list of requirements of said “alt girls” – stripy socks yes, fake boobs no.

    How sad d’ya have to be really? I want to look at women with their tits out, but ya know they have to have a few tattoos and pink hair, cos I’m alternative….. I’m not like those normal sleazy porn guys.


  9. 2 things.

    I thought the girl was being entirely reasonable, if not, like Jenn said, being too reasonable. Most girls I know “pretend” that their boyfriends don’t watch it. They let is escape the realm of their conscience because when you think about it from the woman’s perspective it is, at minimum, strange.

    Secondly, I think porn can be harmful to a relationship. But it is harmful the way casual sex would be, not for any self destructive principals of it’s own. Casual sex, like porn, emphasizes approaching women with a hunter’s mentality, capturing them, “devouring them” and repeating the cycle. Women become objects, not people, whose primary function is service. I will admit that porn allows for the literal download of hundreds of women in an hour, whereas casual sex can’t reach that point, but, its a difference of degree, not substance.

    For some reason, however, our society has drawn the line in the sand for “cheating” to be the physical act and not the dehumanizing consumption of other women. This is why many women are socially powerless in trying to negotiate a reduction in the number of beat downs their men throw.

    In the interest of full disclosure I watch a lot of porn. In fact, most of the porn I’m into is the kind that is mostly focused on chewing the women up and spitting them out. A lot of the arousal stems from the “Oh my God, I can’t believe she just did that” factor. Thats probably the worst kind of arousal to have though because it becomes a never ending circle. A lot of other guys are just into “chicks with big tits”.

    I won’t say that porn doesn’t hurt relationships, but I can’t imagine being in a relationship more than one week before I would fire up the Macbook and throw one down just to get it out of my system. I think the best way to handle it though is to realize that porn time and relationship time are separate compartments, one should not bear on the other and if they do something should be done.

    P.S. A lot of dudes on that site were super creepy. They remind me of huge dorks with deep voices that like to act like they know things about women. Guys like this suck, they are horrible to take out with you to bars because they creep out every girl, they make you feel bad about being good looking and having social skills, and they are hard to talk to because their life becomes one huge frustrating affair. I’m sad that since this constitutes most of the online community that those were the male flag bearers for this debate.


    1. Hey Andrew:

      here is one of those women you “devour” slapping you upside the head.

      We’re fucking PEOPLE. Just like YOU.


      1. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, isn’t that the point though? A lot of the porn devouring dudes don’t want to deal with actual people. They don’t want the women they’re looking at to have problems with her mother, be worried because her friend’s sick, be wondering how she’s going to pay the rent, have an interest in archaelogy, etc, etc, etc, because yanno that’s too much like REAL LIFE.

        If you have to acknowledge that the person you’re looking at is a human being with feelings, then you need to start treating them as human. And most of these dudes just don’t want to do that.


  10. i dont have reddit either, but this goes double for me:

    “She doesn’t need any porn-addicted victim-blaming misogynist idiot’s input into her own relationship.”

    dont even ask the question, because all you are going to get is input from men who want all women to submit to all men. they have everything to gain from responding in the ways they do. it bothers me that she feels so worthless because of what her partner is doing to her, that she would resort to asking the internets for advice. and being in that desperate frame of mind, she is going to take in every negative comment lobbed her way. i hope that this positive-comment campaign helps her. good call.


    1. So, all it takes to feel worthless and be so desperate that you’ll absorb anything anyone says to you without processing it for yourself is… to ask for information and advice about something you’re unfamiliar with on the internet?

      Well, there goes my life then. I never would have realized I was such a worthless meatsack.


  11. polly styrene wrote:
    “I am amused, in a grim sort of way, by the dudes who use porn but are at pains to stress that hey – that doesn’t mean I actually find these women ATTRACTIVE.”

    I don’t remember seeing anything that said *that* precisely. (Although the one about no “real lust” is interesting. No lust? When you’re watching porn? Seriously?) What it sounded to me like is “Would not be interested in having an actual relationship with these women.”

    And that’s sort of understandable. You don’t exactly learn a lot about a person from watching them have sex. Except they’re saying it in a sleazy and disturbing way, so… it’s sleazy and disturbing.

    Also, to anyone saying they don’t have a reddit account, it doesn’t take much. Just a username and a password, no email address required even. So if you’ve got something you want to say… well, go for it, it’s pretty easy.


  12. most of the porn I’m into is the kind that is mostly focused on chewing the women up and spitting them out….P.S. A lot of dudes on that site were super creepy

    Holy fuck, dude.


    1. It sounds bad, but I’m not going to lie and say that just looking at a naked girl is really all it takes. Especially since I have been using porn with some regularity for almost 12 years. Admitting what kind of porn “gets you off” though is not inherently creepy. I don’t come to this forum to pick up on girls or find social companions (unless nine deuce ever wants to kick it when she’s in the city).

      The guys are referring to as creepy though an entirely different breed. They form their assumptions about woman as a whole from what they see in porno’s and pick up from random corners of the internet. They think every girl is just a vicious cock slut waiting to be discovered who will simultaneously destroy the life of the man she’s dating if he develop’s genuine feelings for her.

      While viewing porn can really trash a person’s relationship, it takes porn + these types of guys to really trash a person’s relationship to woman as a whole. When I meet a woman for the first time I don’t ask myself if she’s a gold digger, would ever do a set for, or has ever fucked a black dude. These types of guys do and they aren’t even afraid to say it. Thats the creepy part.


          1. Well, you know how a black person having sex with a white person isn’t two people that are having sex, one of whom happens to be black and the othe white, it’s “white girl reamed by black guy”.

            Being white remains the default, anything else is still seen as somehow strange, put in its own category along with DP and semen swapping. Probably because the existence of non-white persons has yet to be scientifical proven or somesuch.


            1. I wasn’t being racist. I was just pointing out that black guy on white girl is fetishized by porn. Thus, the guys who watch it adopt an attitude about girls who have had sex with black men in general. I’ve heard *many* guys say that they wouldn’t touch a girl after she has had sex with a black guy. It’s just another example of what porn can do to someone’s mind-state about the world at large.

              Personally though, I could not care either way.


              1. Yeah, dude. It isn’t as if our culture’s racism has no effect on what the porn industry decides to do. In the never-ceasing race to the bottom the porn industry seems to be in with itself, pushing racism is still a pretty good way to get attention. Kind of like pushing misogyny. I wonder if there’s a connection there…


                1. Another thing I’ve actually heard about in regards to race in porn is that some people want porn that has “people who look like them” in it. (Though I’m not sure what ethnicity the example in True Porn Clerk Stories related to.)

                  I’ve come to the conclusion that a lot of mainstream porn is trying to cram appeals to as many different groups as possible into a given amount of video, and don’t particularly care if one group would find another group revolting. Though I’m not sure how much that stands out from marketing in general.


              2. “I’ve heard *many* guys say that they wouldn’t touch a girl after she has had sex with a black guy.”

                You mean, kind of wanting apartheid for fucktoilets, now that they cannot have it anymore for actual toilets?
                And if they have daughters, do they hang a sign saying “For whites only” around their necks?



  13. I wasn’t actually addressing you, Andrew, and I would prefer it if you did not address me. Not that I can stop you.



  14. Cheers Nine Deuce – I appreciate that.

    Yeah. I think I was having nightmares last night about some horrible monster that chewed up women and spat them out.


  15. Well, I have to hand it to you Andrew. You’ve managed to make *everyone* mad at you with that metaphor.

    Also, I don’t quite understand how quoting someone and replying to what they said isn’t addressing them.


    1. As I said, I wasn’t replying to him. I was just saying holy fuck dude. To the feminists here. As in: ‘Holy fuck, did you notice this one?’


    2. I really don’t understand the outrage to be honest. I am only using the language that any of the other women on here would use to describe porn. If the outrage is that I look at porn I suppose thats valid, but should not come as a surprise. I also agree that it is harmful to relationships. The only reason I was go “graphic” was to emphasize that I do understand what pornography is at its core, that I don’t tell myself lies that justify or allow my viewing of it to go unchecked. I also don’t let it influence my beliefs about all women, which I also took care to point out that some men do.

      In short, I agreed almost entirely with the reading on here that porn is harmful and a SO has the right to check it in a relationship.


      1. I think the problem is your apparent sense of entitlement. I mean, you know it’s wrong, you know that your reasons for being into whatever you’re into are fucked up, you know you’re contributing to an industry that hurts people, yet you think it’s OK to keep doing so. You say you don’t let it affect your view of all women, but the women you’re using by proxy are women, just like I and my readers are. If you see nothing wrong with seeing those women degraded, then how do you expect us to do anything but snort at your claims that you aren’t a misogynist? I for one think it’s valuable to hear someone tell the truth about what kind of porn they’re into and why. It’s disgusting and worrisome, but it lets people know that the porn industry isn’t cool, that it banks on dehumanization, and so on. But still, you’re basically doing the equivalent of saying that some women are subhuman, but that you’ll give the rest a chance to prove themselves not to be. Sorry, but that kind of makes me want to throw up rather than hang out.


        1. I didn’t claim to not be misogynist. In fact, under your definitions I clearly am. But I’m also not “giving women chances”. In fact, one thing your writing makes especially clear is that men shouldn’t feel like they are giving women anything.

          With regards to porn I am into what I am into and whether I watch it or not, the ability to control whether or not it turns me on is beyond me. The reason this is because the porn industry has gone to great lengths to get me into it, they knew they could, and they did.
          I also struggle sometimes with the amount I few, what it entails, and what if affects.

          I don’t think the women on the screen are sub-human. In fact, they are more human than many. I see them as representations of how ugly and adversarial the human experience truly is. They’ve lost in a system I’ve won in for many reasons, but mostly gender, privilege, and resources.

          The fact of the matter though is that I have nothing at stake in seeing the patriarchy dismantled. This isn’t just a jab at womanhood, I don’t necessarily have a stake in anything that dismantles any traditional white, straight, male privilege. I do find your analysis compelling though, and it is the framework I use to analyze situations that entail an intersection of gender and power. This is why your blog fascinates me. I’ve checked out a lot of feminist blogs, for some reason your writing style is particularly persuasive, you might consider yourself the Justice Scalia of radical feminism.

          Getting back to the issue, porn, this woman and society. I only wanted to comment that women should have (not by any grant of myself but because they have leverage in relationships, particularly the power to leave) the ability to check their partner’s porn consumption.

          I didn’t mean my description of what porn consists of to be inciteful I just didn’t want anyone to think I had some half-wit analysis of the actual power dynamic of the industry.

          For the record I am a big fan of pointing out to my girlfriend that she should use all the leverage she has in the relationship to get what she wants. I think a lot of relationships, structures and systems in general benefit when everyone involved knows what they want, why they have or don’t have it, and how they can get it or keep it.


      2. Well, at first I just found it skeevy and disturbing. Pushing your view of the scene on women who may not feel particularly “chewed up” by the porn they’ve chosen to be in doesn’t help. (Unless you’ve actually asked any of them how they feel about it, which I doubt.)

        The way you now seem to be trying to put all the blame on porn instead of taking responsibility for your own issues *really* doesn’t help.


        1. You can’t really have it both ways though. Either porn is an activity that women are free to participate in, free to leave, are not coerced by, and is therefore a completely legitimate exercise of their autonomy that does not impinge on the feminist movement; or it is a highly patriarchal system which does, in effect, chew women up and dispose of them as soon as their use has disappeared. I agree that this is the affect on women is has.

          With regards to my “issues”, they aren’t really issues to *me*. Like I explained above, men are the beneficiaries of this system, women are the losers. Any issues I do have with porn would be limited to how it effects my intimate relationships.

          I won’t say I’m not a bad person for using it, because under a dichotomy of bad and good I probably am. I just don’t really have a motivation to change.

          P.S. Any motivation I did have would probably be very selfish, and therefore, equally invalid anyway.


          1. Porn can be both. There are some women who participate in it freely (see Ren), and there are some who are forced or coerced or abused within the porn industry. In any case, it nearly always gives the appearance of chewing them up and spitting them out, because our culture is aggressively misogynistic and the porn industry both feeds off of and feeds that misogyny in order to exist.

            As to your supposition that you’ve got nothing to gain from not using porn, how about the satisfaction of knowing you aren’t a dupe and an idiot? Because really, that’s what you are when you let the porn industry into your life in such a way that it affects your own sexuality and personal relationships.


          2. Andrew, you state that any motivation to abstain from porn would be selfish and thus invalid. But this is not about you – at least not in the context of feminism. It is about women, and ultimately they don’t care what your motivation is.

            Analogously, many people abstain from eating meat for (selfish) health reasons. An animal-sympathizing vegetarian is generally still happy that those people exist, despite having nothing in common.

            It sounds like you have some ethical overlap with feminism anyway.

            Meanwhile, I have no doubt you will personally benefit from kicking the habit. It feels like poison draining from your body. As a bonus, like 9-2 said, you get the satisfaction of no longer being duped by the porn industry.


  16. Controlling your SO is not a right. Doesn’t matter if you’re male, female, feminist or not, doesn’t give you the right to attempt to make someone do what you want.

    If you don’t like what they do, you have the right to live with it, or leave. You don’t have the right to say “No, you can’t do that!”


    1. Using women isn’t a right either. Nor is cheating, which is basically what porn is. You may not have the right to tell someone they can’t do something, but you can say what you will and will not tolerate within a relationship. If you won’t tolerate porn use, then it’s the dude’s responsiblity to decide whether he cares more about using porn or about being with you.


    2. Asking a man to not use porn is not ‘controlling’. It’s a plea for human decency.

      And no man has the right to porn, nor to sex, nor to women.

      Asking a man not to contribute to the worldwide abuse of women and girls is a damned reasonable request that no man with a conscience should refuse.

      But as generations of women can tell us all, as I and many others can tell you, asking nicely doesn’t work. You see on these threads women basically asking the same question, and getting nothing but cowardly callousness in return from the men.

      If the men on threads such as these do not prove the point that porn use blunts the capacities for human sympathy and empathy, I don’t know what will.


      1. If all it takes to blunt someone’s capacity for sympathy and empathy is watching porn, I’m going to doubt they had much capacity to begin with.


          1. In the interests of clarity, I did not mean to suggest that having seen porn is an ‘excuse’ for violent acts – by no means. As you say, individual men choose to be violence, choose to rape, choose to use prostitutes. ‘I saw it in porn’ is NOT an excuse at all, and we have all seen it used as an excuse by the vilest predators.

            However, numerous studies have shown that exposure to pornography *does* render viewers less likely to be sympathetic to rape survivors and encourages them to view violence against women as acceptable (there are links on my blog to accounts of such studies under ‘anti-porn’ links; I can supply a bibliography too if requested). What this does NOT mean is that the rapist gets off the hook because of his porn exposure. What it DOES mean is that as well as the rapist being pubished those men who profit from porn need to be held accountable for their actions. We hold (or at least *claim* we do) other people responsible for hate speech and its consequences – we need to do so for this.

            Make no mistake: violence is endemic in the making of pornography, pornography is used to ‘train’ children and women by abusers, it is used as a script by abusers generally, and pornographers hide beneath the cowardly banner of their ‘free speech’ which silences others.

            Nothing excuses violence against women. Nothing excuses encouraging violence against women either.


  17. Nothing excuses violence against women. Nothing excuses encouraging violence against women either.

    And not all porn is “violence against women”, nor is it encouraging it.

    I’d say, unless porn says “Go hit a woman”, it’s not encouraging violence.

    Like Ren has said, either here, or that thread, or both, stop speaking for women in porn. She does it, and she, and others, can speak for themselves. They don’t need or want you to do it, especially when you make assumptions about their situation that are unfounded.


    1. So, should Ren speak for all women in porn? Or how about you? We get a lot of nonsense from pro-porn/pro-sex work types about why we shouldn’t speak for women in the sex trades, but I wonder who appointed them the spokespeople for everyone involved. There are an awful lot of women in the sex industry without the wherewithal to speak on their own behalf and whose opinions might differ from those who have chosen not only to do sex work, but to argue on behalf of the industry for their own gain. Am I allowed to speak on behalf of the women who e-mail me and tell me they use to strip, do porn, etc. and tell you that they think there’s something wrong with the sex industry? Or should I forward their e-mails to porn producers and let them decide what they want to see the light of day?


      1. Ren does not now speak for all women in porn, nor has she ever claimed to. Let’s clarify that right away. I think (and always have thought) it is important for people to hear all kinds of stories from all sides. Just as the sex industry is not a monolith, the people in it are not either.


    2. Women in porn don’t need me to speak ‘for’ them. Check the links on my blog – they can do it just fine themselves.

      And sweetie, I’m never going to stop speaking. Get used to it.


    3. “They don’t need or want you to do it”

      Ah, so *you* are their sole spokesperson! Thank god you showed up in time! What an honour to meet you!

      Never, ever try to insult my intelligence.


  18. Reading their comments really made me feel hopeless. There are so MANY men who think they’re entitled to do whatever they want, and treat women so poorly.

    Has anyone ever met a truly nice, compassionate caring man?

    I mean, she’s just asking him not to cheat on her basically. “It bothers me when you masturbate to pictures of women being degraded and objectified.” Because that’s what porn is.

    Why don’t men think of women as people? We’re just…what was the phrase of one of those idiots? Oh. “Worthless meatsacks.” That was it.

    That’s certainly encouraging.


      1. You only know three?!? Where do you meet men who are truly kind and compassionate?
        It’s very frustrating to have to choose between loneliness and settling. I guess loneliness wins out because I’ve never met a guy who would give up his porn.


    1. Unfortunately, there’s very few places on the net which allow anonymous commenting which won’t be filled with crap like that.

      Mind you, it’s hard to tell if “pussy is a right not a privilege” is someone’s actual belief, or something someone thinks is funny (though, if the later, you’d expect some overlap).


  19. DONE

    Im sorry I only saw this post of ND now!!!But I still added my 2 cents to it all…..and thank you winter_lights for pointing out that you dont even need to type in an email to create a Reddit account,it was really easy it only requires a
    password and name.

    Even though I never find it easy to read about situations like of that girl from Reddit….it always depresses me, but most of the time I cant help myself and I do get invloved and try to give those victims a lil hope…..saying that I didnt bother reading the comments as theres always a few comments that depress me and make me just wanna give up.

    Thanks ND for mentioning that girl and plz do so if u come across other posts like that


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