Flirting and dating are for people who like white wine.

14 May

I’ve never understood flirting. I don’t mean that I’m unaware of why people do it or how it’s done, but I’ve never been able to do it, nor have I ever wanted to. I’m even fairly oblivious when someone is attempting to flirt with me, to the point that I’ve had friends tell me that I’m immune to innuendo and to the point that someone has to overtly sexually harass me before I notice what they’re up to. I think the reason I’ve never gotten flirting is that to me it seems either gross (an obvious invitation to sex), or dishonest and manipulative, and I’m not too keen on applying any of those three adjectives to myself.

Women don’t have a lot of sources of power in this society outside of their control over whether men get to have sex with them, which means that women often use flirtatious behavior to get attention or to get men to do things. I’m defining flirtatious behavior broadly as any act that is intended to flatter the male ego in an attempt to either get his sexual attention or manipulate him into doing one’s bidding. That means it includes giggling, eyelash-batting, pretending to be inept, pretending to be stupid, pretending to be weak, pretending to be childlike, making unnecessary references to one’s sexuality or to sex in general, purposely and unnecessarily calling attention to one’s appearance and/or clothing (pointing out how cool your boat shoes are notwithstanding), and other sundry varieties of general coyness. Over the course of my life, I’ve watched hundreds of intelligent women exhibit outrageously embarrassing (in my book) behavior in order to get male attention and favors, and it nearly always puts me in a foul mood for one reason: it works.

That means we’ve created ourselves a situation in which the stereotype that men are fools and women are manipulative sex objects is true for the most part. Fucking great. I’m not going to get into a chicken-and-egg thing here about who started this circle of inanity, but it seems pretty obvious that women are expected to exhibit these kinds of behaviors and that the punishment for not playing along is being ignored, called a dyke, whatever. Put simply, not pretending to be a silly little fool comes with consequences. I’d say that I’m personally fairly happy with those consequences, since the kinds of dudes I tend to be willing to talk to aren’t taken in by that sort of behavior and since I’d rather be left alone by the kinds that expect it, but I’m not happy that the situation exists.

So what’s the solution? I vote that women be themselves in all cases and let men figure out how to handle it. I suppose that’s evident throughout this blog; I advocate that we knock off all the “beautifying” bullshit, stop pretending that our sexuality consists of enjoying being used and objectified, stop pretending to be weak and feeble-minded damsels in need of male assistance in everything from deciding what to do with our time to carrying our own shit around, and eschew all of these silly little behaviors that in the short term get us attention and favors, but in the long term feed into the idea that we’re a bunch of sexbots sent here by Heineken to bolster men’s egos and bring them beers. I suppose that might be a tall order for a lot of women. I suppose it might be hard to give up the one form of power some of us (not all of us – remember, you have to be fuckable) have with no guarantee that it’ll be replaced by anything but a lonely and powerless sense of pride and integrity and a glimmer of hope that the world will change to catch up to us. Ah, well. I can hope.

Enough feminist idealism for a minute. All this talking about flirting is making me think about how weird dating is. I have a friend who is dating right now. Just one. Dating at the age of 30 is really weird, isn’t it? I’ve never known anyone who did much dating, and I’ve only been on one date in my life, when I was 13, and it was to go see Bill and Ted’s Bogus Journey, which doesn’t count. People from Southern California don’t date, we hang out with someone in a group of other people, get drunk with them a few times, make out one night, and then find out we’ve got a boyfriend/girlfriend. That usually works out for people, since they end up meeting whoever they marry at about the time that shit gets old, sometime between the ages of 22 and 25. But what happens if that doesn’t work out and you end up single again? You end up being 30 or so and being forced to date for the first time in your life, that’s what.

This friend, who I’ll call Heywood, called me one day to discuss the grossness of the idea of dating. Heywood said he’d just gone out on a fourth date with a girl he met at a bar, and that he wasn’t sure if he could handle dating her, since she’s into Jack Johnson and Ozomatli. Imagine that: spending four nights of your life and a fair amount of money only to find out that the person you’ve spent the time and money with/on is into the musical equivalent of having a urine fetish. This highlights the whole problem of dating: you have to hang out with strangers, both of you knowing full well that you have no reason to be in the same room save for the fact that you both considered each other potential sex partners, and try not to let that make you too uncomfortable to talk. Fuuuuck that.

Then there’s the dilemma of where you’re supposed to meet these prospective dates. Bars? Yeah, people who hang out in bars to meet people to date are usually really cool. Work? If you’re into really awkward situations, sure. The grocery store? This isn’t a late-80s yuppie movie. Heywood said maybe he’d meet chicks at Target when he goes shopping for household goods, but how can he be sure they aren’t venturing into the clothing section? Big-box store pseudo-urbanity isn’t cool. If you’re going to buy your clothes at a place that also sells Pepperidge Farm Goldfish crackers, don’t be a poser: go to Costco and get a sweatsuit.

But I digress. It’s pretty much hopeless unless you’re willing to date people you meet on the internet, and I don’t care how “acceptible” online dating services have become; I grew up in the 80s, when only desperate middle-aged women named Carol and fat guys with beards used dating services. Dating websites, although I’ve never been on one, sound pretty rough, and the premise is fairly disgusting. You are on a website contacting strangers, and both of you know that you are a) unable to meet anyone any other way, and b) desperate to be in a relationship, which means c) you have self-esteem problems, as evidenced by the fact that you can’t handle being alone. Either that or one or both of you is there looking for people to have random casual sex with, which is even creepier.

 

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36 Responses to “Flirting and dating are for people who like white wine.”

  1. Patricia May 14, 2008 at 4:54 AM #

    I’ve always had a problem with what constitutes flirting. I’m a girl that likes to chat. I can chat to just about anyone and I love it. But I’m chatting, all normally, and suddenly guys think I’m flirting?

    I chat to guys like I chat to girls. There’s no giggling, batting of eyelashes etc etc. YET when I mention the word “fiancé” the guys suddenly have somewhere else to be.

    Are we supposed to assume everyone is a possible sex partner if we say hello? What happened to good old fashioned CONVERSATION?!

  2. Patricia May 14, 2008 at 5:13 AM #

    And as for the dating thing… I think that’s one place where we don’t differ so much, us South Africans and you.

    I met my fiancé through hanging out at a friend’s house which led to a drunken make out.

    My sister is always back on the dating scene, and the guys she meets online (and, um, everywhere) are invariably crap. The real psychos come from the Internet.

    A friend of my sister’s is an educated individual. She’s ambitious, she’s got her MBA and she’s a really nice person. But she dresses like a skank, gets hammered at every opportunity and plays little miss helpless as soon as there’s a man around. Ugh.

    • Liselotte July 4, 2009 at 7:41 AM #

      “A friend of my sister’s is an educated individual. She’s ambitious, she’s got her MBA and she’s a really nice person. But she dresses like a skank, gets hammered at every opportunity and plays little miss helpless as soon as there’s a man around. Ugh.”

      But where is the problem?
      Why does feminism mean that we have to give up everything female if we happen to like it?
      Feminism means that we can be ambitious and get our MBA’s. Why does it mean we have to dress a certain way and behave a certain way?
      I hate norms. I hate rules (besides those of the most basic kind of way that make sure we don’t all slaughter each other). I don’t see feminism as another norm for dressing and behaving (e.g. asexually and unfeminim) but rather as a way to be less limited in self expression (e.g. no “women don’t do such things” any more).
      To me, feminism is (or rather, can be) exactly that: I can dress the way I want to, be hammered as often as I want to and yet be educated, nice, successfull and whatever else I wat to be.

  3. Nine Deuce May 14, 2008 at 5:16 AM #

    I have that exact same problem. I’m chatty as hell, and I’m always finding myself out somewhere thinking I’ve made a friend, and then finding I’ve just managed to disappoint some dude who thought me talking to him about politics or tacos meant we were going to be getting naked later.

  4. Patricia May 14, 2008 at 5:22 AM #

    I realise this is the third comment I’m leaving, but I thought I should share this little South Africanism with you:

    (This is not meant to be a racial thing, but a cultural thing.)

    Most of the guys that hit on me are either black or Indian, both cultures that very patriarchal. The white guys don’t hit on me so much because I don’t dress like a barbie doll, but I do have a tendency to look timid, hence being attractive to other cultures.

    A friend of mine also told me that it’s a sort of a status symbol for an Indian man to have a white girlfriend.

    But here’s my experience with one black guy that kind of jarred me:

    I was at a bus stop in a very dodgy part of town. I walked from one end to the other, to fetch something my sister forgot. So this guy jumps out of nowhere and tells me how pretty I am. And asks me my name. So I say it. Then he wants my number.

    I say “I’m not giving you my number, I have a boyfriend.”

    He replies “Do you really think you’re his only girlfriend?”

    Here is a fine example of culture clash. In my culture, to have more than one is deviant. In his culture, to have more than one is his right as a man. Hell, our future president has god knows how many wives.

    The experience freaked me out because he was getting too close, I can’t remember whether or not he grabbed my arm or not, but that sort of thing happens.

    And I was trying my damnedest to look unattractive, unappealing, uninviting… Thank god I don’t wear short skirts.

  5. Nine Deuce May 14, 2008 at 5:26 AM #

    Now I’m starting to feel like I need to put some qualifications on the post right after this one!

  6. Me May 14, 2008 at 12:17 PM #

    What’s wrong with buying clothes from Target? Someone seems a bit elitist, there. Sorry I don’t have the flashy wardrobe to impress you with! :-P

  7. zombie z May 14, 2008 at 2:08 PM #

    I definitely buy clothes from Target. That is, when I need something I didn’t get free/for $1 from work. I hope that doesn’t make me a bad person.

    As far as internet dating goes, I think there’s a huuuuge generational gap going on there. Almost everyone I know I met online. At my age, it isn’t weird or creepy or desperate to have profiles up all over the place, and the good news is if someone likes Jack Johnson, they usually publicize it so you can avoid them. Even the more subtle misogynists usually let something slip on their profiles, too, so you can avoid the awkward fourth-date “coming out” of all the evil shit you never wanted to know.

    But–I grew up on the internet. I’ve been chatting up strangers since I was eight. (No, I’ve never been approached by one of those internet pedophiles that Chris Hansen is always talking about.) It only seemed natural to eventually tighten my range of chattin’ to locals and actually meet up.

    My mother, on the other hand, is single for the first time in her adult life at 50. She has met a lot of dudes off PlentyofFish.com, and they are all fucking CREEPS. I keep telling her she doesn’t need a man, but she’s not quite ready for that sort of radical talk yet.

  8. Nine Deuce May 14, 2008 at 3:03 PM #

    About Target – I’m just grossed out by the fake vintage things they sell. It’s weird, and even worse than the shit at Urban Outfitters. And I don’t expect anyone to go around in a flashy wardrobe. You should see how I dress. My best friend calls me Huckleberry Finn because all my shorts are without hems, if that gives you any idea.

    About internet dating – I’ve only met two people from the internet, and we met in a friend sort of way, and it all worked out fine. What I think is weird is going onto a site that revolves strictly around dating, which is a strange concept to me.

  9. Brain Washed Teen May 14, 2008 at 5:03 PM #

    I’ve seriously never got the flirting thing. Because, it’s like you said, flirting is in essence faking who you are to get a date. I mean, why? I think it’s something you do if you’re insecure.

    Although guys always seem to think I’m flirting with them because I always smile or some such nonsense. It’s gotten to the point where I just don’t want to smile at guys in case I give them the wrong idea, which is stupid >__<

    The guys I’ve gone out with have been people I’ve met on several different occasions previously, so I like their personality, not just their body. Because if you agree to go out with someone after only just meeting them, isn’t that just physical attraction? And that’s a pretty bad thing to base a relationship on.

    And internet dating is weird to me as well, for the same reasons you’ve listed.

  10. L May 14, 2008 at 5:27 PM #

    I’m terrible at flirting, mostly because I don’t know what it is and because I can’t identify when it’s happening to me. When I do figure it out — usually hours after it’s happened — I’m both “flattered” (I blame!) and skeezed out.

    I’ve done quite a bit of internet dating, and I struggled with the same perspectives of myself while I was doing it. Since then, though, I’ve gotten over it — internet dating is no worse than meeting someone in bars or out and about, and in fact it’s probably easier, as zz said, to screen out the idiots.

    The problem isn’t how we find partners — for sex or companionship or whatever — it’s that we’re looking for dudes as partners if we’re het. That automatically puts us at a disadvantage and puts us and our potential partners at odds with each other. No dating “system” will work until patriarchy is gone.

  11. chlorophyll May 14, 2008 at 11:31 PM #

    I think that flirting and dating are useful endeavors to help you realize what types of people you get along with. That’s about all they’re good for, as practice for the next phase in your dating life.

  12. Windstorm May 15, 2008 at 9:39 AM #

    Often if I’m just talking to a guy – just waiting in line for something or whatever – he thinks I’m flirting with him. I’m so not flirting with him, just yakking, being social, waiting in line. Why do guys think women always want them????? It’s so weird.

    I wonder if it isn’t a subtle, built-in, societal way to keep women quiet. To keep us from being out-going, venturing out, striking up conversations, exploring the world.

    If we talk to people waiting for our Starbuck’s, if they happen to be guy-type people, so often they think we’re coming on to them. Eeww.

  13. bonobobabe May 15, 2008 at 7:42 PM #

    Ugh! Flirtation sexbot behavior pisses me off. In one instance, it led to my not being adequately trained to do my job, since the MAN training me and my giggly co-worker spent much more time explaining things to her and basically told me, “You’re doing fine,” when I asked to have more instruction/time with him. I had no fucking clue how to run the instrument, and I was pissed. I was going to complain to the boss, but he was just as bad. Grrrr!

  14. Marilyn May 15, 2008 at 9:45 PM #

    I disagree – flirting can be fun. It must be the times or something, but to exaggerate it all out of proportion is sad. I am 27, sensible, considered “hot”, most certainly not always “available” when I’m out and about, don’t go to bars, avoid the online hell, and have gone out with guys I met in the course of my work (not co-workers, too messy). I am not an “easy” pick-up (far from it), but I can like a guy confident enough to try in a certain way. I know it’s 2008, but if I have to be a robot – no thanks.

  15. L May 15, 2008 at 10:27 PM #

    I know it’s 2008, but if I have to be a robot – no thanks.

    Because not flirting and being unwilling to be coy for teh menz is the same as being a robot. Right.

  16. chlorophyll May 15, 2008 at 10:44 PM #

    From my experience, there is no use in being coy with a guy you actually like. Because if you like him, you will probably see him again. And again. And he will eventually find out that you are not actually a coy and delicate picture of intelligent femininity but a regular person who just looks plainer without her makeup and mannerisms. And without your makeup and mannerisms, very few guys are willing to tolerate the coy little games that we are encouraged to perform.

  17. Marilyn May 15, 2008 at 10:59 PM #

    No, not at all. What would make you say that? Is there some “teh menz” rule I ran afoul of. Um…let’s see – for 10 minutes I shall turn off the coy/flirt switc, and then in 7 minutes…I can perk up so long as I don’t bat my eye. Now, for 4 minutes…

    Are artificial standards like that the way you like to judge women? And, what about the men- what can or can not they do in the first 10 minutes? or, is it that we just don’t concern ourselves with them – a reverse cooties syndrome?

  18. L May 16, 2008 at 12:11 AM #

    Marilyn, you were the one who implied that not flirting was robotic, unless I’m missing an interpretation of your statement (“I know it’s 2008, but if I have to be a robot – no thanks.”). I’m not judging women, and I’m not judging you. If you like flirting, have at it — it’s no skin off my nose. I just don’t want to be told that my choice not to flirt is indication that I’m somehow less than human or less humane than you and other folks who like to flirt.

  19. Marilyn May 16, 2008 at 1:00 AM #

    Yes, L, I agree. But, I made a round about statement and you took it too far. I am not political, at least not a “radical feminist” when it comes to flirting, dating, and it is something I am very selective about. I am not “a guy’s girl” and don’t want my message to be interpreted as: “What’s the matter, girls? Don’t you l-i-k-e guys? Heavens, no. You make too many fine points.

  20. L May 16, 2008 at 4:43 AM #

    I seriously don’t understand your comment, Marilyn. I don’t believe I took your statement too far — all I did was apply your implication to myself and point out that it’s an untrue and unfair characterization to imply that non-flirters are robotic. But, whatever. Think what you will.

  21. Patricia May 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM #

    I’m also confused. Where does the robot come in? What makes a person a robot?

  22. Drakkar Noir May 16, 2008 at 3:39 PM #

    There’s nothing wrong with flirting as long as it’s genuine. If a person flirts for manipulation, well, that’s stupid. Was the boat shoes comment directed at me? I love my boat shoes.

  23. Marilyn May 16, 2008 at 8:21 PM #

    All I meant by the “robot” comment is that “fixing” people to be a certain way is unhealthy, a little bit neurotic. Isn’t there a joy in having a body, a good body, female or male? What’s the message? Is it just girl-guy sex that’s to be discouraged? That guys are bad news? Women are better? (maybe, maybe not). Eye-batting: bad. scowls: good. isn’t that 70’s feminism? i.e. a bad phase.

  24. L May 16, 2008 at 11:10 PM #

    Marilyn, are you interpreting this post to mean that women shouldn’t flirt with men? That we evil radical feminists (transported here directly from the 70s, apparently) want women to be robots when it comes to dealing with men? Because if you are, you need to read again. The most directive Nine Deuce gets is here:

    So what’s the solution? I vote that women be themselves in all cases and let men figure out how to handle it.

    And the rest of the paragraph goes into more detail about what that means. No one here is saying that YOU need to stop flirting. You, Marilyn, can do whatever the fuck you decide to do. If you like to flirt, go for it! Have fun! Holy cow! However, if you don’t see the point in flirting with men because it feels gross, dishonest, or manipulative, then this blog post is for you! If it doesn’t bother you that “flirting” is often another word for “harassing” in practice, no one’s asking you to change your mind. We’re just talking about how we see flirting.

    ——

    What is so difficult about this? Why do so many people jump from “Hm, I don’t agree with this opinion” to “ZOMG ur takin away my RIGHTS!!!!!”?

    • storyending July 4, 2015 at 2:26 AM #

      (Years later), Marilyn’s reaction is just a typical defensive response from a handmaiden/sex-pozzie who doesn’t want to accept the truth and her role in keeping the current system in place. I’m not blaming her for her extremely typical response – it’s what she and other handmaidens are paid for in the Patriarchy.

      Personally, I don’t argue with these ladies, but I respect those, such as you, who try.

  25. Nine Deuce May 17, 2008 at 3:17 AM #

    Drakkar – No, I just got some and I think they rule.

    Marilyn – What L said.

  26. Marilyn May 17, 2008 at 6:59 AM #

    Alright, L, maybe I jumped to a conclusion. Maybe, you jumped to a conclusion. If I only had a jump-rope, we could really have fun! Now, if my name was Alice…it would all make sense.

  27. Amananta May 20, 2008 at 1:49 PM #

    Gah, dating sucks so bad, and I love your description of it.
    For me in the end the best solution has become meeting friends through shared hobbies. That way when you get into a relationship after you’re done having sex you actually have something to talk about.
    Bizarre as it may sound, I’m actually now seeing someone I met through our mutual obsessive playing of World of Warcraft. Given the whole bizarre subculture this game spawns, it saves a whole lot of the “honey when are you getting off of the computer” arguments most “mixed” couples (i.e. WoW player and non-WoW player) get into. Instead it’s um. “Sweety, want to play our elves?” “Ooooh yes! Yes!”

    Okay now I sound like a total nerd and I’ve spammed your blog enough for the day *runs and hides*

  28. Finisterre July 3, 2009 at 4:51 PM #

    “Dating websites, although I’ve never been on one, sound pretty rough, and the premise is fairly disgusting. You are on a website contacting strangers, and both of you know that you are a) unable to meet anyone any other way, and b) desperate to be in a relationship, which means c) you have self-esteem problems, as evidenced by the fact that you can’t handle being alone.”

    That’s some bizarre reasoning there. Wanting a relationship = self-esteem problems? That’s a very bleak outlook indeed. What about just wanting to share your love and body and space with someone warm and funny who you love?

    Personally, I had a really happy experience with dating websites. It’s a neutral, safe space not dominated by “alpha” males (or any other kind), where I found it much easier to check out guys I liked and I didn’t have to even acknowledge the arseholes, unlike in real physical situations.

    As for ‘the real psychos are the online ones’… shit, I didn’t realise that. Two women a week are murdered by their partners here in the UK. I guess if we shut down the dating sites, that would sort that problem out? I’m going to write to my MP this minute.

  29. Butterflywings July 5, 2009 at 10:24 PM #

    ‘Marilyn, are you interpreting this post to mean that women shouldn’t flirt with men?…What is so difficult about this? Why do so many people jump from “Hm, I don’t agree with this opinion” to “ZOMG ur takin away my RIGHTS!!!!!”?’
    I can’t speak for Marilyn, but, yeah.
    See, when you characterise women who flirt as weak, incompetent, unintelligent and manipulative, yes, people will read that as saying women shouldn’t flirt with men.

    And agree with Finisterre, rather judgemental about online dating.

  30. Taybeh Chaser December 11, 2009 at 2:57 AM #

    Liselotte–What about the rules about what constitutes “everything female” in our culture? You hate those? Who gets to make them?

    If I’m doing it, it’s a female thing, even if it’s wearing something “unfeminine” (I’ve been told I should show off my body more), neglecting to tend to my armpit hair (I’m starting to think it’s sorta cute) or making the first move on a fellow without all the coy stuff (still not asexual, so much for your stereotyping–and there’s nothing wrong with being asexual either).

    Yes, I know this is a bit late.

  31. lizor December 12, 2009 at 5:18 PM #

    Lisolette,

    What’s the problem with an intelligent, competent woman acting like Little Miss Helpless? In a world where we are already presumed to be dumb and incompetent? Seriously?

    There’s a difference between letting a guy know that you find him attractive and acting stupid to buoy up his ego, or acting stupid and inept because you figure that’s what he finds attractive. The latter, if it’s what one needs to play in order to get sex or attention or what one perceives as “positive” reinforcement, is pretty sad.

    Feminism does mean you can get the MBA, and it also means that you then do not have to hide the fact that you are smart in order to placate insecure men. You seem to think that all things “female” and apparent intelligence are at odds with one another.

    I mean if one wants to play the helpless victim to some insecure arsehole’s knight in shining armour, why bother learning anything at all? Why not be the real dumb helpless thing?

    In case you didn’t actually read the post, here again is ND’s definition of flirting:

    “I’m defining flirtatious behavior broadly as any act that is intended to flatter the male ego in an attempt to either get his sexual attention or manipulate him into doing one’s bidding. That means it includes giggling, eyelash-batting, pretending to be inept, pretending to be stupid, pretending to be weak, pretending to be childlike, making unnecessary references to one’s sexuality or to sex in general, purposely and unnecessarily calling attention to one’s appearance and/or clothing (pointing out how cool your boat shoes are notwithstanding), and other sundry varieties of general coyness.”

    From where I sit, a smart woman who equates “female-ness” with appearing to be immature and helpless is just plain depressing.

  32. Imaginary December 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM #

    How many times I’ve done this flirting thing, I don’t know. I do it mainly because I’m terrified of men and I want them to go away and not pester me and harass me for being, you know, not a fragile frikin’ flower. It always makes me feel kind of dead inside. And extremely guilty because I used to do it to womin too; manipulate them by flirting so they couldn’t get close. God, I’m an asshole.

    Good post 9-D. Love your stuff.

  33. Immir April 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM #

    Right on. I think dressing ‘sexy’ for work is just fucked up. What do you need a pound of make-up & spike heels for when you do data entry? I’d rather sleep for an extra 15 minutes or watch cartoons than put on a mask of makeup.

  34. joy July 13, 2010 at 9:42 PM #

    When I was a teenager, my mother was positive – positive! to the tune of getting my doctor to diagnose me! – that I was autism-spectrum because I didn’t flirt.

    Since my childhood (tiny-Joydom), I have refused to ass-kiss or pander to passive-aggressive manipulation (which was a huge favorite terr’rist tactic in my family).
    It’s not that I can’t/couldn’t see or understand these fakey-ass behaviors — I knew very well what was REALLY being exchanged in every exchange, and that was the problem.

    Of course, I was considered a “failure” socially. Over time, I did learn how to pander to dudes, albeit in a “smart-‘chick'” “sex-pozzy” “‘punk’ ‘rock'” way (“of COURSE your take on anarchism is the best way, O Dudely Dude — I differ in opinions because I’m bright, but naturally your opinion is awesome; also, don’t worry, I’m not one of the scary ladies and I totally might blow you to prove I’ve Killed The Cop In My Head [TM]!”), as a survival/coping mechanism — but I always knew the shit was totally fucking fake.

    I’m back to opting out. Screw putting on pretenses. If some dude doesn’t like that I know what I’m talking about, don’t shave or wear makeup, and do wear trousers or “unflattering” housedresses/Huck Finn shorts all the time, he doesn’t need to talk to me.

    In case I need to say this, I thus don’t talk to a lot of dudes. I personally think that is an additional reason to engage in this type of behavior. A positive side effect, or a cheeky bonus, if you will.

    Women who opt out should probably not be seen as a bad thing. Clearly, legit autism-spectrum problems (I’m pretty sure I never had one, thanks mental health industry; or if I had, it’s “cured” by now) could have real drawbacks — but is being immune to the fucking bullshit REALLY all that bad?

    PS: Thanks for letting me resurrect a few of your old threads, ND. That’s what happens when I get bored and start reading archives as therapy. And there just happens to be a lot of good shit in your archives.

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