Elliot Rodger and the Pandemic of Masculinity

3 Jun

I read Elliot Rodger’s manifesto yesterday. It was, without a doubt, the least surprising document I’ve ever read. It wasn’t hard to follow; it wasn’t bizarre; it wasn’t a collection of the meanderings of a mind that had lost touch with reality. Instead, it was boring, trite, obvious, and exactly what I expected it to be: a rant by a spoiled brat with an overweening sense of entitlement. To women, to sex, to wealth, to attention and adoration. Frankly, I suspected at times that it was written by a Marxist feminist satirizing privileged male entitlement in general and MRAs in particular.

Elliot Rodger wasn’t Holden Caulfield, he was a bratty little asshole who assumed he was somehow superior to everyone else and thus deserved rewards simply for existing. The rage that he felt wasn’t caused by the cruelty of others, but by his own unreasonable expectations, expectations shared by the majority of men. He may have been less equipped to deal with frustration than the average person, but his reaction to that frustration shouldn’t surprise anyone who has been paying attention to the directions the culture has been taking over the course of the last decade or so.

About that manifesto. I’d call it a memoir of a cult member rather than a manifesto, since it doesn’t contain an idea of any kind. Rodger spends 141 pages narcissistically recounting every detail of his privileged childhood, describing in excruciatingly boring detail each family trip to some “exotic” locale or other, each luxurious Japanese dinner, each wasteful birthday celebration, each time he and his family attended a media industry event as someone else’s plus-one. Save a few bits of ham-fisted foreshadowing, the story up until Rodger hits puberty reads like the autobiography of every kid I went to elementary school with in Southern California: upper middle class parents who have no interest in raising a child but plenty of money and help doing so raise a kid with a profound sense of both entitlement and abandonment. His family clearly had just enough money and social status to gain entry to the outer circles of extreme privilege, and to afford Rodger a glimpse of what could be his if only he were fabulously, disgustingly wealthy instead of just comfortable in the extreme.

In fact, the story Rodger tells of his life after puberty reads like a tale of the rude awakening to the fact that his parents were not that rich after all. He makes repeated reference to puberty as the mainspring of his disillusionment with life and humanity, as the catalyst to his confrontation with the cruel realities of the world, but he is clearly projecting a concept he has adopted from the Men’s Rights Movement and from the Pick-Up Artist (PUA) scene onto his own adolescent understanding of the world, while his recounting of his own memories illustrates a gradual realization that he was not, after all, a member of the Hollywood gentry.

Is it just me, or are there more cult-ish movements around these days than there were a few years ago? Rodger makes mention of his attempt to follow the advice contained in Rhonda Byrne’s The Secret, a book that encourages readers to think they are multi-millionaires to whom life’s rewards flow unremittingly and without effort, which will result in them actually becoming one-per-centers. Though Rodger ultimately dismisses The Secret when putting its methods into practice doesn’t result in his winning the lottery and thus becoming a pussy magnet, the fact that he tried it in the first place, coupled with his wholesale adoption of MRA and PUA theories of how the world works, indicates that he shared something in common with tens of millions of people: the willingness to believe that disappointments and frustrations can be explained by nebulous, ill-fitting, simplistic principles propounded by self-help mountebanks in the pursuit of book and seminar ticket sales.

The culture told Rodger that sex, money, and attention were his birthright. When the system failed to deliver, Rodger flailed around, seeking an explanation. At first, it seemed that he turned his frustration inward and assumed that he was lonely because he was somehow defective. At that point in the narrative, I almost felt sorry for him. We’ve all been bullied, we’ve all questioned our worth as human beings based on the way that others treat us, and we’ve all wondered if life would be better for us if we were somehow constitutionally different than we are. It’s gross. Some of us respond to that kind of fundamental uncertainty about our value by entering into a pattern of self-abuse, some of us begin to question the system of social values that leads to such misery, and some of us fall prey to explanations that place the blame for our unhappiness on the people who reject us. Some of us do all three. But disorder arises when someone like Rodger fails to differentiate between fantasy and reality and never grows out of the expectation that life will turn out like a Bud Light commercial. Or a porn video.

So, what did the culture tell Rodger he could expect from the world? As a privileged child, he was given everything he expressed a desire for, it would appear. Rodger, cared for by a series of nannies, also grew accustomed to being doted on by young women in his childhood years. He grew up on the edges of Hollywood’s elite, a world in which power and wealth command attention and favors from what must look to a child to be an unending parade of young, beautiful women. Once Rodger learned about sex (from porn, naturally), he reached the seemingly obvious conclusion that he was owed sex due to his superior social position.

The culture tells all men that they are owed access to women’s bodies and energy. Sitcoms feature attractive women married to and putting up with mountains of bullshit from blundering schlubs. Movies hammer the idea into boys’ minds that young, hot women, though they may resist at first, will eventually fall into the laps of lazy, misogynistic, overgrown infants like those played by Seth Rogen and Jonah Hill in Judd Apatow movies (yeah, assholes, that’s right: your movies promote misogyny and male entitlement). Porn tells young boys with no other knowledge of sex that women are filthy pigs who just love being gangbanged and ejaculated on by abusive, sneering monsters.

I don’t know why girls rejected Elliot Rodger when he entered adolescence, or whether they even did. There seemed to have been a window in junior high — before he started consuming porn — when that was not the case. He might have been a little awkward, he may have lacked social skills, but it appears that his obsessive sense of entitlement to what he believed other boys enjoyed (whether that was the case or not) took over, coloring all of his interactions and probably preempting any chance he had at relating to girls. He was consumed by the foolish belief that porn and bullshit adolescent male bragging were reality for everyone but him. Once that set in, his anger and desperation probably became palpable in social situations to the point that women — who learn from a young age how to spot signs of danger in male behavior — steered clear.

Without any real contact with women, for Rodger, they became cartoon characters, aliens, beasts, non-human. They were an enemy to be vanquished, a prize to be collected for the achievement of having been born male, the source of all of his frustrated expectations. He absorbed those messages wholesale from mass media culture. Rodger’s memoir reads like a catalog of his consumption of popular media, from Pokemon through World of Warcraft through Halo 2, from Star Wars to the Lord of the Rings trilogy to Game of Thrones, to internet pornography, to MRA discussion forums populated by legions of men railing against women for not fulfilling the fantasies instilled in them by that same media culture.

Several feminist bloggers have made the argument that writing Rodger off as mentally ill takes the focus off of systemic misogyny and allows a worldwide epidemic of woman-hating and gynophobic violence to go unexamined. They aren’t wrong. But Rodger was mentally ill. According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness:

A mental illness is a medical condition that disrupts a person’s thinking, feeling, mood, ability to relate to others and daily functioning.

By that definition, Rodger was certainly mentally ill, and so are most men. What set Rodger apart was his willingness to participate directly in violence against women as women in order to punish them for refusing to provide him with the sex he felt entitled to, rather than simply doing so by proxy via the consumption of violent and degrading porn and other products of a capitalo-misogynistic society. The existence of masculinity requires that men be unable to relate to women, as masculinity and femininity are the institutions upon which male supremacy rests. A man who is capable of relating to women — who does not suffer from the mental illness known as masculinity — is incapable of abusing them, either in person or by proxy.

77 Responses to “Elliot Rodger and the Pandemic of Masculinity”

  1. Elaine Wood June 3, 2014 at 2:06 PM #

    I can’t add anything to this that could enhance what a precise catalogue of ills you’ve listed in our present society’s culture–as your posts always do. So I’ll just say thanks again for enumerating, and illuminating, them so profoundly.

  2. Hecate June 3, 2014 at 2:09 PM #

    Very eloquent commentary, ND. Indeed, there’s very little that’s surprising with the Elliott Rodger saga. I also read the manifesto. Though the story was familiar, it was nonetheless disturbing. I was amazed at the extent to which his mother doted on him. And mothers should, but catering to anyone’s every little whim like that is clearly going to create a monster. With or without such a generous motherly figure, men do grow up with an insane sense of entitlement. Again, nothing new there.
    Regarding his having read ‘The Secret,’ I think that was more fuel to the fire of his incredible narcissism. A major trait of the narcissistic personality is that ‘magical thinking.’ So of course he genuinely believed he’d win the lottery and hence lots of female company. Blondes of course.
    You make a good point in the end. Just because all ‘macho’ men don’t act out in the way Elliott did, doesn’t mean they are any less messed up in the head. Plenty of men keep female partners silent just by the threat of their unstable/ irrational mental state and a less-than-subtle undercurrent of violence emanating from them.

  3. Redpeachmoon June 3, 2014 at 2:32 PM #

    Thank you Nine Deuce, more brilliant and insightful commentary.
    I was actually on page 40 of said Manifesto when I was relieved by notification of your new post. Rescued!
    I so appreciate your voice, it’s a great comfort to me in this misogynist wilderness we live in.
    Sincere thanks to you.

  4. Carey Mastre June 3, 2014 at 3:58 PM #

    awesome article – thank you

  5. Mel June 3, 2014 at 8:52 PM #

    Nine Deuce:
    First time commenting, but been a fan of your blog for awhile! Anyway, I’m not sure why I feel the need since this argument is so futile, but here goes: there is a difference between mental disorders and personality disorders. The former tend to be more vulnerable members of society. It’s obvious that Rodger was a narcissist, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he had antisocial personality disorder.
    I am really not trying to detract from your points re: misogyny and male entitlement, because a lot of men behave like sociopaths (and let’s be real, the cops who found Rodger “charming” must have been somewhere in that domain, as well). But people need to be wary of how this logic leads to stigma against people who are sick/struggling (and are more likely to hurt themselves than others) and bullshit like the insanity plea. That description from NAMI does not even begin to cover any of this; “mental illness” isn’t some one-type pattern of behavior/features. You cheapen your own argument AND the experiences of those of us who actually deal with this firsthand.
    Part of me feels like I’m being a little too direct for someone who has never commented before, but I have faith that you’ll understand because you offer such smart, insightful, funny commentary. Implying that mental illness = lack of emotional depth and an inability to empathize is lazy. It’s NOT what you’d expect from anyone with a basic structural or class analysis, more like the reason I’ve avoided media coverage of this entire incident. Men have no fucking excuse for the shit they pull – let alone “insanity”.

    • Sugarpuss June 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM #

      Men have no fucking excuse for the shit they pull – let alone “insanity”.

      This.
      I was diagnosed with a bunch of crap (bipolar, manic depressive, social anxiety disorder, etc.), plus my mother was abusive to me and I was bullied a lot (by both boys & girls) in my childhood, but the only person I’ve ever seriously considered killing is myself. It never crossed my mind to go buy a gun and start shooting at my classmates or just random people on the street. But then, I don’t suffer from the disease of entitled maleness.

      • goldern boy syndrome June 10, 2014 at 8:51 PM #

        Sugarpuss, my momma was abusive too (something few people understand) so my condolences to you. It’s some seriously painful shit, and people aren’t often sympathetic.
        This little picks behavior is unfathomable. Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Beautiful blonde girls won’t have sex with me!!!! WAAAAA! I’m owed sex b/c the internet said so!
        It’s a problem for kids who grow up thinking the interwebz holds all the answers. I just wonder what can be done?
        I used to think “men” had a basic sense of humanity, but since reading internet comments it seems that men default to the “I think of women as fuckholes” model of existence. And I weep for the future of humanity.
        In fact I just read a well-thought out piece by a decent guy who was making some really stellar points about teaching his son to see women as humans and (of course) the comments section is filled to the brim with jerks complaining that someone dare ask them to think
        of women as humans and not just sex objects.
        Like it’s some horrible injustice that men be asked to see the other 50% of the population as human, but whatever.
        At any rate, I’m glad to see ND is back – she is one of the few voices that I feel really represents how many women like me feel about this crap. GO ND!!!!!! you tell em girl!

        • Sugarpuss June 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM #

          This little picks behavior is unfathomable. Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Beautiful blonde girls won’t have sex with me!!!! WAAAAA! I’m owed sex b/c the internet said so!

          Yeah, talk about First World Problems. And let’s not forget that this little turd had access to thousands of prostituted women (and I’m not advocating that shit, I’m just pointing it out), so his “boo hoo I can’t get laid!” shtick was a load of disingenuous crap. Any dude with at least $50 (often times, much less) in his wallet can procure the rape sex that he feels entitled to.
          Of course, it’s entirely possible that this brat was of the tightwad variety. Those dudes believe that they should get everything handed to them for free; no mutual attraction, no exchange of goods for services rendered, nothing, nadda. Simply the one-sided expectation that women, all women, should roll over and spread our legs for every low-life slimeball that propositions us. Got standards? You’re a BITCH!11!!!

          • Hecate June 13, 2014 at 8:31 AM #

            Well reading his manifesto, it appears there were a lot of activities this little wanker considered ‘low class,’ so it’s likely that hiring someone for sex fell into that category for him too. It almost makes you appreciate the working class dudes who blow off steam at strip joints. Almost.
            And a little off topic, but I love that he was always bashing Asians, yet was half Asian himself. Racist, sexist classist. In short, a real winner!

          • Hecate June 13, 2014 at 8:32 AM #

            Well reading his manifesto, it appears there were a lot of activities this little wanker considered ‘low class,’ so it’s likely that hiring someone for sex fell into that category for him too. It almost makes you appreciate the working class dudes who blow off steam going to strip joints. Almost.
            And a little off topic, but I love that he was always bashing Asians, yet was half Asian himself. Racist, sexist classist. In short, a real winner!

          • Golden boy syndrome July 22, 2014 at 11:48 AM #

            “Of course, it’s entirely possible that this brat was of the tightwad variety. Those dudes believe that they should get everything handed to them for free; no mutual attraction, no exchange of goods for services rendered, nothing, nadda. Simply the one-sided expectation that women, all women, should roll over and spread our legs for every low-life slimeball that propositions us. Got standards? You’re a BITCH!11!!!”

            Yeah, I see that attitude becoming more and more common among males. There are posts on my local Craigslist EVERY WEEK in the “rants and raves” section by men complaining about the “stuck up” women here in town (who are mostly fit, tan, young, beach blonde Cali girls, much like the women in Santa Barbara that ER felt entitled to) and how they don’t want to fuck them.

            It’s always amazing to me, because it’s easy for me to see that these girls are autonomous and likely prefer to date people in their social circles, not random dudes who yell at them out car windows. But whatever, these men HATE these women for having a choice of who to sleep with, and despite the fact that they know nothing about them and have NOTHING in common with them, are ENRAGED when they hit on one of these college girls and they get blown off. She’s a “bitch” who must be fucking every other guy in town.

            I do think that the prevalence and extreme nature of internet porn is driving some of this sex entitlement attitude these days. In fact, just yesterday the house full of frat boys that lives across from me were whooping and yelling at the TV. At first I thought they were watching soccer (their windows were open and they have a giant TV), but when I actually walked by I could see that they were watching gang bang porn and cheering like it was a football game. It seriously made me uncomfortable – too much like pack behavior for nine drunk men to be cheering at porn like that. *shudder*

            I don’t mean to go on a tangent, but I think internet porn saturation is partially responsible for this type of ER “entitlement rage” and violence. I’m dating myself here, but in my day a person actually had to go to a porn store or order a men’s magazine subscription to get anything other than very tame nudity.

            It WAS better that way. It kept extreme porn “in its place” and it really did keep minors from getting constant access to it (even if they did still get it from friends, it was still likely to be tame). These days, little boys as young as 10 are being exposed to “gonzo porn” and it IS HAVING AN EFFECT on how they view women.

            Let’s face it – the entire attitude surrounding porn is that a woman’s body is just something to be used and abused, and that women enjoy being abused and degraded. An internet porno company even stated outright that they have run out of creative ways to abuse women’s bodies because the demand (to see simulated rape) is so high.

            I tried being progressive for a while and looked at one popular internet porn site, but the DESCRIPTIONS of the videos make me so ill that I still get sick thinking about it. And that’s the crux for me. There is just nothing playful or sexy about most modern porn. There was nothing that was even remotely positive about female sexuality at all. The descriptions don’t talk about women at all (just teens, sluts, and whores) – they are, well, as anyone who has read porn keywords, dehumanizing at best, and outright rape/violence encouraging at worst.

            I don’t know what the solution is, but men need to be presented with a counter view at a young age. Something that teaches that women are autonomous individuals and that women do not solely exist as lust objects for men. Someone needs to make a non-religious, non-moralizing video that can be shown to young boys in sex ed classed like “Porn: Myth and Reality” that says “This is a packaged product designed to make you crave images of degradation, real sex is much less one sided – proceed to discuss actual female sexuality.”

            OK, so now I have officially rambled, but this topic gets me so fired up.

          • Gowan October 10, 2014 at 9:39 AM #

            Actually, I think I read somewhere that he didn’t even proposition women. He expected women to offer sex to him. Without anything in exchange, of course.

  6. permlatord Melanie Hamilton June 4, 2014 at 3:34 AM #

    Great response to the entire mess! You’ve spoken so well for me and, really, all women who have to navigate through male duplicity and bullshit. I’m so sick of it all.
    The porn industry is pretty slick (no pun intended) when you think about it. They superimpose sick fantasies on the stupid men who make frequent use of their garbage. What men don’t seem to get is that they’re as manipulated and devalued as the women who “perform” in these twisted exhibitions. Relying on porn for some sort of sexual training or education is self defeating for men and it teaches them what I call “Hit and Miss Sex”. They go through a set of perfunctory moves that certainly aren’t meant to satisfy women and certainly don’t. They lose the ability to enjoy real physical intimacy. The result is like any other dependency. It takes more and more porn with increasingly nasty images for them to feel even a modicum of satisfaction. They’re not chasing the same dragon as heroin addicts, but the problem is the same: They’ll never experience the same level of arousal, etc., that their first viewing provided.
    I’ve always wondered if porn viewers think they’re failing with real live partners who fail to moan and go “Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh” with every thrust, delivered in high pitched squeals. All I can say is that if I wasted my time and energy making all that noise, I’d never get anywhere at all. It’s a game neither gender can win and it’s meant to be that way.
    As far as that useless little turd Elliott Rodger is concerned, I have to shake my head at the lack of real parenting this little jackass received. His parents seem to have replaced real concern and guidance with stuff and social situations which he was too young to handle and/or understand. They seem to have cared only about appearances and about being seen at all the right places, as far as was possible. He was born into a world that manufactures fantasy and false expectations which were reinforced at every turn. One of my first reactions to the news of his meltdown and killing frenzy was “What possessed his parents (father) to give that little shit bag a BMW for transportation?” Until these little snots can pay for such things themselves, it’s a HUGE mistake to furnish them. Expensive stuff is no substitute for real concern, interest and love from parents.
    When all is said and done, for all his bravado little Elliott was just another coward who didn’t have the personal integrity to face the hate motivated decisions he’d made. Typical.
    And people ask me why I’m more than reluctant to date.

    • golden boy syndrome June 10, 2014 at 9:24 PM #

      great commentary, thanks.

  7. permlatord June 4, 2014 at 4:42 AM #

    You have beautifully summed up what I think of this latest shooting debacle and the ramblings of the little snot bag who perpetrated it. You present your case so well. This event has only reinforced my total disillusionment with male duplicity and bullshit.
    To all the self entitled males out there who decry so-called feminazis and are purveyors of untrammeled misogyny, I say go diddle yourselves. I’d use the phrase “fuck yourselves” if I thought you were worthy of such a grown up insult. Since your emotional development ceased at approximately age 12, you only deserve playground level invectives.
    This whole mess is enmeshed with the slimy world of porn. Those who are involved in that particular business are pretty slick (no pun intended) if you think about it. They don’t care about anyone. Not the performers and not the misguided members of their viewing public. What men don’t seem to grasp is that the porn industry manipulates and devalues the men who view their garbage every bit as much as they do the performers. They superimpose twisted fantasies on their customers with the aim of making them dependent on porn to get any modicum of sexual release and/or satisfaction. They develop profound dependency on the nasty, degrading images they are fed, similar to drug addiction. They’re chasing the dragon just as any heroin addict does. They’re looking for the same overwhelming sensation, reaction that followed their first experience with porn, just as the heroin user is looking for the high they experienced with their initial use of the drug. They never achieve that same level of sensation and they never, never will. Just as with drugs, it takes more and more porn depicting increasing levels of debasement, disrespect and violence as the dependency continues. They learn only self defeating sexual techniques and become increasingly less interested in real physical intimacy with women, or anyone for that matter. They practice what I call “Hit and Miss Sex”. They go throw a slew of perfunctory moves with little enjoyment for themselves and certainly none for their hapless partners. Porn is generated with the sole intent to demean those on the receiving end of male sexual aggression, however comparatively tame it may seem. The poor stupid fools don’t understand that they’re pawns of the porn purveyors.
    I’ve often wondered if porn viewers even notice that real women involved in sexual activity don’t go “Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh” with every thrust, usually delivered in a high pitched sort of squeal. All I can say is that if I wasted that much energy and attention on making all that absurd noise, I’d never get anywhere. Not that they’d give a tiny rat’s ass.
    With regard to that little shit bag Elliott Rodger, I don’t think he’d ever been introduced to real life on any level. His parent seem disturbingly detached and apparently not interested in actually parenting this misbegotten little creature. He apparently was frequently involved social situations which were not appropriate for his age and/or social skills It seems that in lieu of love, guidance and real interest in him. he was given stuff. Never a good trade. He was raised in a place which manufactures fantasy and unrealistic expectations in every aspect of life. Even the mantle of apparent wealth wasn’t real. My immediate reaction to the breaking news about his killing frenzy was “What was that little shit doing with a BMW as transportation?” Just another sop from (probably) Daddy. Imagine how dismayed he would’ve been to find out just how much an automotive upgrade worthy of his superior being would’ve cost had he ever made it to the real adult world. Little asshole.
    I can’t begin to imagine what the families and friends of the murdered young women and men must be going through.
    When all is said and done, Elliott was one more shitty little coward who didn’t have the personal integrity to face and own what his hate-filled agenda had wrought. Typical.
    And people ask me why I’m reluctant to date.

    • permlatord June 4, 2014 at 5:39 AM #

      Sorry for the typos I discovered in my comment. There’s one close to the end of the third paragraph where I’ve used “throw” instead of “through”. In paragraph five I’ve left the letter “s” off the word “parent” and I’ve added a “t” to the end of the little miscreant’s name. Sorry. I can only plead extreme fatigue exacerbated by agitation. Hate sleepless nights!

  8. Sugarpuss June 4, 2014 at 2:21 PM #

    92, did you watch his pathetic video? I LOL’ed extra hard at his delusional assertion that shooting a bunch of people will make him an “alpha”. Anybody can pull the trigger on a gun… even a 7 year old child… and this LOSER thought he was so bad to the bone for doing it. What a stud! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!1111!!!!
    Oh shit. I was laughing so hard I almost spilled my coffee.

  9. internetdood June 5, 2014 at 8:56 PM #

    You’re back! Yay! Sorry, I discovered this blog a few months ago and I was worried when I saw the last post date that you were gone forever. That would have been terrible, because it’s a great blog. And you’re great!
    Uh, I should probably say something relevant to the actual topic. Porn is terrible. Why can’t kids these days just use their imaginations?

    • Serafina June 10, 2014 at 8:59 PM #

      Damn skippy, internet dood. As if is it’s some horrible affliction to have to use the imagination, rather than having actual women act like dogs so some internet perv can get his rocks off.
      And I agree, yay for the return of ND – most badass feminist commentator on the net IMO!

  10. yoursillysister June 6, 2014 at 7:58 PM #

    Excellent analysis. I also read that document, and your description of it as more of a memoir of a cult member than a manifesto is spot on. Your whole piece is spot on.

  11. Gaz June 17, 2014 at 3:45 PM #

    I can really understand how you have hatred against us men; being laid back, I have always been told I should get into fights, get laid with lots of women, get drunk, do anything I want just cause I can, etc.etc. because it would make a ‘man’ out of me.

  12. Sugarpuss June 17, 2014 at 6:47 PM #

    For all of the sleazy PUAs out there, who whine about not getting any sex and being judged by their appearance, I’ve got two words for them: Susan Boyle.

  13. Sugarpuss June 23, 2014 at 4:42 PM #

    Nice White Guys™ continue to whine and abuse the #yesallwomen hashtag on Twitter with crap like this: https://twitter.com/CloydRivers/status/481096270262460416/photo/1
    Just the sheer hypocrisy is unbelievable. Men base, literally, 101% of their judgment of female attractiveness on women’s LOOKS. Not their talents, not their sacrifices, not their intellect, just their raw flesh…and nothing more. And now, these assclows want to get their undies bunched when women do the same? Awww… boo-fucking-hooo, you damn mascunazis. I’m getting tired of these manipulative pieces of shit. Jealousy sure is ugly.

    • internetdood June 24, 2014 at 7:08 PM #

      His comparison doesn’t even make any sense. It’s not like all the women of the world were surveyed and they voted to talk about the felon rather than the veteran. It’s just a silly Internet meme that’s gone viral and making the rounds, and so people are going to pay attention to it. There’s no value judgment involved.

  14. Sugarpuss June 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM #

    Random tweet from a whiny dude: https://twitter.com/TattedBamaGent/status/479748127432667136
    Another tweet from same dude: https://twitter.com/TattedBamaGent/status/479524203259891712/photo/1
    Yeah, that’s a pretty glaring inconsistency.

    • Nova June 23, 2014 at 10:05 PM #

      Hi Sugarpuss, how are you doing today? :)

  15. M.K. Hajdin June 25, 2014 at 2:37 AM #

    “A mental illness is a medical condition that disrupts a person’s thinking, feeling, mood, ability to relate to others and daily functioning.”
    Key words being “a medical condition”. Personality disorders such as narcissism are not considered mental illnesses.
    Sorry, but I belong to that group of feminists who believe that dismissing Rodger as mentally ill not only takes the focus off of misogyny, it contributes to the stigmatization of genuinely mentally ill people, the majority of whom are not violent.

    • CPB June 26, 2014 at 12:45 AM #

      Was Elliot Rodgers merely narcissistic or officially disordered? His actions certainly belie mental illness, but ethics dictate that no diagnosis can be rendered by someone who was not treating Rodgers at the time. Speculation is certainly allowed though, and I vote a big fat honking “Yes”.
      Hate to break it to you, but personality disorders *are* in the DSM V – the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders. Hence, personality disorders do count as mental illness; whether or not you believe they should is another story. The condition is considered highly functional and often undiagnosed due to the individual’s reluctance to seek treatment, but it still technically ‘counts’. I’m pretty stunned by the amount of people who refuse to acknowledge this fact since the proof is in black and white and a pdf copy of the manual is available online. I also agree that Rodger’s act of violence was fueled by misogyny and should be recognized as such, but misogyny oftentimes goes hand in hand with narcissistic personality disorder and frequently results in violence. I see nothing wrong with acknowledging that he was both mentally ill *and* a flaming sexist…happens all the time.

  16. Sugarpuss June 29, 2014 at 4:56 PM #

    Hey you guys, I’m back on Twitter, but getting heat because I have no followers and tweet controversial things, therefore making me look like a spammer. Come play with me! Come follow me! (please?) LOL!

    • Sugarpuss June 29, 2014 at 4:57 PM #

      PS https://twitter.com/SugarpussFTW
      Ooops. forgot the important part. :D

    • Hecate July 1, 2014 at 2:50 PM #

      Sugarpuss, you can attach a bot as I did on Twitter to get more followers. It’s here: http://awd.site.nfoservers.com/replicants/ You just type in what your interests are, like art, feminism or cats :D Then it will even automatically tweet for you. Some people will not appreciate it. But I’ve had fun with it.

    • Hecate July 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM #

      Sugarpuss, you can install a bot as I did on Twitter to get more followers. It’s here: http://awd.site.nfoservers.com/replicants/ You just type in what your interests are, like art or feminism or cats. Lol. Then it will even make posts for you. Some people will not appreciate it. But I’ve had fun with it.

      • Sugarpuss July 2, 2014 at 1:23 AM #

        Why aren’t you following me?
        I’ve seen several people here claim to enjoy my comments, and say stuff like “If you got a blog, I’d totally read it”. So, Twitter isn’t good enough? So, I’m chopped liver now? I got one fucking follower…and it’s some trollish dude.
        Way to go, gals.

  17. FeralForever July 19, 2014 at 5:03 PM #

    Just found this great blog. What wild and wonderful posts. As far as Elliot Rodger goes, I met too many of his ilk in my school years. I was simply lucky they didn’t own guns.

  18. doctor nick July 19, 2014 at 6:09 PM #

    I haven’t read a better explanation of this whole business then this. Kudos!

  19. Larry August 1, 2014 at 9:09 AM #

    Dear Radical Feminists, I am a happily married white male with two children. In the last month, I have become interested in gender issues. I have always believed that people have equal rights and try to respect all, regardless of gender, race etc. I do however accept that I may have unconcious prejudices. I have been investigating a variety of views including MRA, feminist and radical feminist to try to understand these issues. What would your advice to me be?
    Thank you.

    • Sugarpuss August 1, 2014 at 9:34 PM #

      In the last month, I have become interested in gender issues.

      Lucky us.

      What would your advice to me be?

      Make friends with Google.

      • Larry August 4, 2014 at 8:26 AM #

        Thanks but I was hoping for something more specific in terms of, for example, reading or outlook than google.

        • Sugarpuss August 7, 2014 at 1:32 AM #

          Right, and Google will help you find reading material. It isn’t our job or duty to educate a grown-assed man on the finer points of Radical Feminism 101. No hand holding or sandwich making over here.

          • Larry August 8, 2014 at 11:39 AM #

            Thanks. I would have thought that if an oppressed group is asked by an oppressor how s/he can understand the perpsective of the oppressed better and modify his outlook/behaviour to reflect that constructive dialogue would be forthcoming. I was wrong!

            • doctor nick August 8, 2014 at 7:20 PM #

              Honestly, a radical feminist blog isn’t the best place to ask for basics. It’s kind of like asking how to learn to drive on a racing forum. Plus, this question comes up so often that people are tired of answering it and just tell you to google it.

              https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/ is a pretty good resource for the basics, though.

              • Sugarpuss August 8, 2014 at 9:14 PM #

                Ah, doc nick gets it. Well said. :)

            • Sugarpuss August 8, 2014 at 9:12 PM #

              You’re welcome. I would have thought that somebody who is aware of their oppressor status wouldn’t have the audacity to march into the blog of the oppressed, demand a hand-holding session. and then get angry when said oppressed people don’t drop what they are doing and cater to his lazy, fat attention-seeking ass. I was SO wrong.

            • Gowan October 10, 2014 at 10:00 AM #

              You may be interested in this service, Larry:

              http://thewomansplainer.com/

  20. aegispenguin November 28, 2014 at 1:06 AM #

    Pandemic of male sexual entitlement, disgusting indeed. The sooner men began to unlearn this sick thinking, the better this world will become for everyone.

  21. Lisa December 5, 2014 at 11:55 PM #

    How do you like these brown apples?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/29/hunger-games-killing-fields/

    • Nine Deuce December 6, 2014 at 10:15 AM #

      “[P]eaceful, erotic solutions to conflicts” is the grossest thing anyone has ever written.

      • internetdood December 7, 2014 at 8:07 PM #

        How does one erotically solve a conflict? This concept sounds troubling.

  22. Golden boy syndrome January 7, 2015 at 11:06 PM #

    I’ve been thinking. I read a post today about “How to raise respectful boys” and it had a section about “not blaming boys for their sexual curiosity” when they are caught looking at internet porn. I’m not usually for shaming or punishing people, but in the case of internet porn, it’s a valid option because of the sheer violence and degradation of women in it.

    I think a lot of parents of boys like to bury their heads in the sand about the types of depictions of women their teen boys are really exposed to “what’s wrong with a red-blooded boy wanting to look at some boobs? they say. There is a really prevalent attitude of “boys will be boys” even when it’s a 15 year old watching some poor Mexican woman have sex with a donkey on a pornsite and laughing about it with his friends (an actual example from a mom forum I used to read). She was “uncomfortable” with the material but “boys will be boys” she said – right?

    It’s kinda weird but my personal opinion is that when the boy is caught by his parents jacking off to woman hating porn like they all apparently do, the parents should flip the script. Whatever is being done to the woman in the video should be done to the boy and You Tubbed for all his friends to see and laugh at.

    Porn won’t be such a treat for Billy when he is the one choking on on a shit covered dildo that’s been shoved up his ass for the entertainment of other people’s “sexual needs”. I think this would be a hilarious way to teach boys not to be such porn consumers. If it’s good enough for the woman isn’t it good enough for the boy? I’m being serious. Parents tolerate their boys consuming violent misogynist porn because they are too lazy and they frankly don’t care that they are raising shitty little date rapists and porn freaks. Billy won’t be so popular at school the next day but maybe it will teach him not to be such a entitled little prick and that’s what good for women is GOOD FOR HIM.

    What you don’t like being sexually abused for the amusement of others? How strange since it’s what men and boys expect from women. When they do it to women it’s called ‘porn’. When you do those same things to men it’s quite obviously sexual abuse but I bet many men wouldn’t even get the point they are so brainless, porn sick and rapey towards females. TRUTH

    • Tara January 8, 2015 at 7:44 AM #

      As Andrea Dworkin explained in Pornography: Men possessing Women (it could have been Intercourse as well) there is a strong discouragement of homosexuality or displaying men as sex symbols because it would undermine male power. They would go rape each other instead of women. It’s a boost to male power to have women being shown raped, humiliated and beaten. The power of men comes from harming women, their aggression is diverted onto women as the scapegoat.
      A thing I’ve noticed on twitter and instagram, you know those little clips they have when stupid things happen to someone, or more often than not, someone’s being hurt or hurts themselves, those are predominantly little girls or teenage girls being shown. It’s supposed to be in “good fun” when something bad happens to a girl, but I’ve very rarely see a little boy displayed in such a way. You know why? It would hurt male power, it would be people laughing at men and our society doesn’t want that. Instead you have men and boys getting a kick out of girl’s pain. I’ve noticed that for a very long time. Boys are sadists and since they can’t hurt other boys without repercussions they let it out on girls. And our society is quick to channel all their violence onto women, because they can’t defend themselves. Women-hate is so prevalent in every instance of our culture.

      • Sugarpuss January 9, 2015 at 2:20 PM #

        As Andrea Dworkin explained in Pornography: Men possessing Women (it could have been Intercourse as well) there is a strong discouragement of homosexuality or displaying men as sex symbols because it would undermine male power. They would go rape each other instead of women.

        And there are actually some male-bodied people out there that are crazy enough to believe that female objectification is a form of “privilege”. These delusional cross-dressers know who they are.

  23. Mary Contrary January 24, 2015 at 9:26 AM #

    The first thing that sickens me the most about these mass shootings is the loss of life and the misogynistic male entitlement behind acts of violent cruelty.

    The second thing that sickens me about these privileged mass shooters like Elliot Rodger and George Sodini is that due to their male privilege; society already grants them the piece of ass they’re always complaining they never have. They were just too sexist, classist, and lazy to go beyond their own neighborhood block radius to find someone that could and would look past their physical and mental faults.

    It doesn’t really matter if they weren’t good looking or even sane. Nine Deuce is right – the masculinist ideology is a form of insanity/cult mentality, it’s just a more socially accepted form because women are denied personhood. They wanted a trophy wife/girlfriend who would reflect a social standing they felt entitled to. They wanted a woman who would be an extension of themselves and their own idealized worldview – someone who would double as a house servant and sex kitten; all the while making the other dudes jealous. This is less to do about sex and more to do with status, and the perception of other men having the status symbols they don’t have.

    Male supremacists are idiots if they think mass shootings are about sexual access. Sexual access has nothing to do with crimes like this. As has been pointed out, American society already facilitates roles for women such as prostitution to make sure men have access even if all they have to offer is a couple twenties.

    Crimes like this are perpetrated by misogyny and sexism, and it has little to do with whether or not women put out, because society already demands women put out. Crimes like this are meant to reinforce that cultural value (ha, “value”) which is why MRAs and antifeminists grab onto stories like this and point and yell about them. They want women to put out, because society has already taught them that’s what women are supposed to do. They think they are expecting something novel, but they aren’t. They’re just looking for a reason to guilt trip women into granting them unfettered access to, well, absolutely everything they have. Putting out isn’t just about sex – it’s also about investments of emotional and political loyalty, financial resources, time, energy, and the expectation of putting a man’s needs before her own.

    The fact is, there’s a lot of men who are homely, broke, and aren’t able to find the idealized fantasy woman he’s been taught to believe he’s entitled to. Most of these men eventually accept reality and go cruising trailer parks, mail order brides, craigslist, and other less highbrow venues to find someone and they usually do (typically to the detriment of the women who are less advantaged due to nationality, income level, race, ect). It just so happens that men like Elliott Rodgers and George Sodini thought they were above it all and refused to be like “those men” who would bring home someone dumpy and nice instead of bringing home a svelt, honey-colored trophy wife to make their dads or brothers jealous.

  24. Mary Contrary January 25, 2015 at 7:19 AM #

    Another hate crime against women happened last summer.

    http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/i_think_every_girl_is_a_type_of_slut_what_an_attempted_mass_murderers_words_reveal_about_our_sexual_culture/

    Ben Moynihan stabbed thee women in an attempt to perform a mass killing. He said:

    “So I hope you learn a lesson not to bully guys like us, we deserve dignity, for your own generations, remember.”

    So saying “no” to a man is now a form of bullying (really???), and male privilege is to always supersede the dignity of women; along with disregarding the right to say no.

    Wow, I am literally speechless. The level of rank manipulation in this dude is sickening.

    • Sugarpuss January 25, 2015 at 5:14 PM #

      Mary, you rock my socks. Just visited your blog, and I like how you express yourself in a fashion similar to my own. :)

      • Mary Contrary January 27, 2015 at 7:35 AM #

        Thanks Sugar :) Feel free to stop by anytime you like.

  25. Sugarpuss January 26, 2015 at 4:40 PM #

    And these socially awkward dudes wonder why they are alone…

    • Mary Contrary January 27, 2015 at 7:45 AM #

      Oh god, no kidding. It’s the oldest, most classic double standard alive, isn’t it? Women are blasted for “marrying up” but dudes can demand to score an attractive girlfriend no matter how ugly they are.

      I say this is an occasion for an MRA marmoset:

      Obviously, hypergamy wouldn’t exist if women had more rights than just the right to look pretty and be an extension of some dude’s obsession with status. Plus, they ignore all the guys who “marry up.” I know a guy who married a woman for her inheritance. You won’t be seeing anyone complain about how unfair that is on an MRA board.

      • Sugarpuss January 27, 2015 at 6:47 PM #

        LOL That meme is hilarious.

        The ultimate irony is that these dudes think of themselves as “nice” and a much “better choice” than, say, a guy who doesn’t live in his mother’s basement. It seems that the most extreme cases of misogyny (on the internet at least) are coming from this specific group of dudes. Oddly enough, the more pathetic, smelly, lazy, selfish and overall physically repugnant a man is, the greater his sense of entitlement. But this is the demographic that has been served the most in our society (especially in regard to mainstream media), so it’s not really surprising. They are spoiled brats who play the victim card at every turn, despite the fact that they are catered to in ways that a woman could only dream of.

        As you mentioned in one of the posts on your blog, any man can get sex from a prostituted woman, often for less than the cost of a couple of value meals at McDonald’s (thanks to patriarchy). And we’re supposed to feel sorry for these creeps why?

        Geee, I wonder where the local Beefcake Ranch is, chock full of hot dudes who service women 24/7? Oh right…. there isn’t one.

        These privileged slimeballs can cry me a river and drown in it.

        • Mary Contrary January 28, 2015 at 8:35 AM #

          Well right, how is a dude a “better choice” when he still shares the same level of abusive entitlement so-called “alpha males” have?

          The sad thing is, is that there’s a LOT of young women who are lonely, male-identified, and would date some dickhead living in his mother’s basement, but guess what? They wouldn’t even date her because she’s not good enough for him. We always hear about “nice guys” but we never hear about “nice girls” because the loneliness of girls never mattered to anyone. “Nice girls” can’t hang on a friend who is a guy in the hopes of having sex or being in a relationship, because guys don’t waste their time with women they can’t or don’t want to fuck. Period, the end. Let’s see a woman try to cut off a clingy straggler and she’s called a bitch for it, and worse.

          And good lord, am I ever tired of seeing these guys obsess over hierarchical “alpha male” or “beta male” bullshit when women are experiencing mandatory brazilians, mandatory anal, mandatory butthole bleaching, mandatory self-starvation, mandatory ect ect ect ect ect ect ect and so forth; and this shit is expected of them ***no matter what class or level of income of the dude they are dating happens to fall in.*** Of course it’s not enough that society grants them a piece of ass, society then expects women to SMILE about it, be EAGER to please in all ways, including performing humiliating and harmful beauty rituals. Yes, this can go right back to that butthole bleaching post. It’s all connected.

          It boggles the mind how *anyone* can feel sympathy for these dudes at all, or worse, attempt to elicit sympathy for them in a myopic effort of misplaced empathy. This always follows the assumption that the experiences of women and girls just don’t matter, so it’s no surprise is it?

          • Sugarpuss February 6, 2015 at 11:55 PM #

            Well right, how is a dude a “better choice” when he still shares the same level of abusive entitlement so-called “alpha males” have?

            I know, right? Same stank attitude in a (much) less attractive package. That’s a double zero. Considering their situation, they should be on their best behavior. Too stubborn & stupid to figure that out, I suppose.

            We always hear about “nice guys” but we never hear about “nice girls” because the loneliness of girls never mattered to anyone.

            Yeah, I’ve seen a few women bring up this topic on a couple of forums, and it is quickly shot down by the resident dickhead basement-boy, who insists that no woman could possibly suffer as much as he does, and that, surely, she has a hoard of “beta” males at her disposal, but simply refuses to “lower her standards”. Lots of gas-lighting, man-splaining and total invalidation of a woman’s experiences. But that’s nothing new. As far as the lowering of standards are concerned; it’s always amusing to see men give advice that they themselves almost never follow. :) Based on my keen observations, I’d say about 99% of men date/marry/screw upwards (in terms of physical attractiveness), but there is also a growing preference for wealthy women because they are the only ones who can afford to transform themselves into the silicone-injected fuckbots that so many modern dudes prefer these days.

            Let’s see a woman try to cut off a clingy straggler and she’s called a bitch for it, and worse.

            Yep. Women on the higher end of the mainstream attractiveness scale must “prove” that they aren’t “stuck up bitches” by sleeping with every slob that propositions them. Women on the lower end of the scale should consider themselves “lucky” that any dude would even attempt to screw them in the first place. For women who fall somewhere in the middle, it’s a combination of both.

            Of course it’s not enough that society grants them a piece of ass, society then expects women to SMILE about it, be EAGER to please in all ways, including performing humiliating and harmful beauty rituals.

            Yes, and then men have the audacity to complain about some women having a preference for men who actually go the the gym once in a while, and they try to use this as a half-assed example of how men are supposedly victims of unrealistic beauty standards too. Working out (for those who are able-bodied enough to do it) actually provides many health benefits. And last time I checked, men’s demands on women go above & beyond mere physical fitness, as demonstrated by the “butthole bleaching” trend (among many other harmful procedures designed to appease our masters). I often see a lot of dudes concern-trolling fat women, under the guise that they are supposedly interested in their “health”. So, why aren’t these same dudes “worried” about breast implants, high heels, chemical-laden makeup, anorexia, bowtox, crash diets, labiaplasty*, and of course, butthole bleaching? I’ve noticed that, when these unhealthy practices/procedures come under fire by Radical Feminists, men are adamant in defending them as “free choice”. They say that women’s “choices” have to be respected, even if they are detrimental to our physical/psychological well-being. Well, I could be wrong, but doesn’t overeating fall under the tent of CHOICE? Isn’t it fascinating how men only support the “choices” that give them a hard-on? What an entirely inconsistent argument they produce. Obviously, men don’t give a flying fuck about women’s health. If being fat was considered attractive by mainstream standards, men would support it in the same way they support all of the things previously mentioned. I am of the belief that being considerably overweight is indeed unhealthy (to the point where it affects mobility and general quality of life), but no more so than all of these harmful “beauty” enhancements. And I think it’s worth mentioning that I don’t work out to be “sexy”; I do it to be effective (that really pisses dudes off). Strength, flexibility & quickness are vitally important for women, considering the misogynistic environment we live in.

            *Labiaplasty is the first suggestion offered on Google while typing the first four letters; not labia majora, labia minora or even plain old labia. What does that tell you?

            • Mary Contrary February 14, 2015 at 7:28 AM #

              Hi there sugarpuss, sorry about the delay in responding. I love your comments! You really know how lay it out on the line of how ridiculous the victim complex really is in man/MRA culture – this in particular:

              she has a hoard of “beta” males at her disposal, but simply refuses to “lower her standards”.

              Yeah, that’s grade-A #1 bullshit right there.

              What they aren’t saying, is that women’s standards are typically behavioral rather than superficial. I agree – simply going to the gym a couple days a week isn’t a beauty standard. It’s all around a HEALTHY practice for all people regardless of demographic. For all the guys who say they don’t want to be saddled with an obese wife who ends up prematurely disabled, gee shucks wilikers batman, couldn’t het women say the same about men?

              Besides, if he’s talking about the “beta males” that are just playing nice guys to get in a girl’s pants, they don’t count as viable partners because they are being active manipulators, and manipulators tend to be abusers, ect.

              It’s obvious to us from a million miles away what kind of clingers tend to latch onto reasonably attractive women – we notice this as FEMALES but they do not because they have been raised their ENTIRE LIVES to abuse women and girls with little to no consequences.

              Yeah, and the whole “free choice” or agency is also a really stupid argument because NO CHOICE is made in a vacuum and people tend to CHOSE things that are bad for them when it’s been normalized and encouraged. Do they not realize that women broke and bound their feet in China for a 1,000 years because they thought broken feet were feminine? These standards were held by MEN, dictated by MEN, encouraged by MEN, normalized by MEN, decided upon by MEN, and MEN were the ones who got SEXUAL GRATIFICATION from broken feet frequently infected by toenails growing up into the skin.

              Oh what, are they really going to tell me that women chose to break their own daughter’s feet in a vacuum, even after their own feet were broken as children – all to please MEN – and that the MEN in the equation had absolutely no culpability in a 1,000 years of hobbling that would, by today’s standards, be considered a human rights violation?

              Surely they do not want to GO THERE and blame solely women for CHOOSING a horrifying, traumatic and systematic human rights violation UPON THEMSELVES for absolutely no fucking reason at all and that MEN had nothing to do with it.

              OH right, SURE, cool story bro. lolz

              • Sugarpuss February 16, 2015 at 10:01 PM #

                What they aren’t saying, is that women’s standards are typically behavioral rather than superficial.

                Yes, this seems to be true, for the most part. But I can’t help feeling that it’s because of socialization that heterosexual women are afraid to be attracted to a man on a very basic, physical level. We are conditioned to hook up with a dude for “love” or what the fuck ever. A man can reject a woman based purely on not being his physical type, but if a woman attempts the same, it turns into a very ugly situation. Handmaidens love to jump in on this too, and say shit like “give him chance! get to know him!”, etc, etc. Ummm… why? Nobody ever says that to a dude, when he rejects a woman that isn’t his type.

                As for myself, I don’t really give a damn about personality because most men are just a slight variation of the same thing. Most are misogynistic on at least some level (its impossible for them not to be), so what else is left? LOL If I ever feel an overwhelming desire to be treated like shit, it’s a no-brainier that I’m going to choose the most attractive asshole over the ugly asshole. :D

  26. Sugarpuss February 3, 2015 at 10:18 PM #

    I find it interesting that the men who cry the loudest about “oppressive standards of masculinity” are also the same men most likely to police women for not being ultra “feminine”. The standards for what qualifies as “masculine” have changed drastically over the years; it’s softened quite a bit (to accommodate geek culture). The one thing that has not changed, however, is the belief that, in order to be “real men”, they must still maintain control over women.

    Vegan men are a perfect example of this mindset. These are some dudes who identify as “non-conforming”, yet feel perfectly comfortable with enforcing 100% mainstream standards of “femininity” on women whom they feel are not obeying the rules of acceptable female behavior. Can you say HYPOCRITE? This all goes back to the very archaic notion that social rebellion is admirable/interesting/edgy for a man, but a repugnant, offensive and punishable offense… when performed by a woman.

    • Justin February 11, 2015 at 3:52 PM #

      Yes. Leaders always have more discretion in their decision making than followers. Males are more-or-less given a thumbs up for rebellion (driving a car fast, standing up to a teacher’s authority). If it’s cool for men to rebel against authority and its not cool for women to rebel, then that would be evidence that society is training women to be followers instead of leaders while training men to be in charge since a person in charge is the one who has the greater discretion in their decisions…. So do we proceed by shaming males who rebel -or- by applauding women who rebel?

      • Mary Contrary February 14, 2015 at 8:03 AM #

        So do we proceed by shaming males who rebel -or- by applauding women who rebel?

        Is this a sarcastic question? Seriously?

        Why do men even bother to rebel against authority when they continue to assert authority over women? Isn’t that sugarpuss’ point? (She can correct me if I’m wrong.)

        This shouldn’t be about shaming/applauding, liking/disliking, approval/nonapproval (such split minded, male way of looking at things, IMO).

        Male approval is a malignant tool of the Patriarchy, so using that won’t help. People need to STOP worrying about pleasing men all the time and find/advocate things that are BENEFICIAL and HEALTHY for human beings. Swear words should not be high on any activists’ priority list, to be clear.

        • Sugarpuss February 16, 2015 at 8:47 PM #

          Why do men even bother to rebel against authority when they continue to assert authority over women? Isn’t that sugarpuss’ point? (She can correct me if I’m wrong.)

          You’re right, no correction needed. :)

          Justin is just talking out of his ass, as usual. His reply was so epically stupid, I didn’t even bother to respond.

    • Mary Contrary February 14, 2015 at 7:48 AM #

      Great comment, sugarpuss. Yep, domination of women is a common theme among ALL communities and demographics; and no matter how oppressed a man feels or actually is, he is always entitled to put women in their place to assert his own humanity. FFS, doodz. You hate being treated like crap from other men? Now you know why feminism exists! Because you treat us the exact same way your oppressors treat you! What a novel concept! (the clue phone rings)

      RE: geek culture. Yeah, I get that “toxic masculinity” is a problem, but it is NOT a problem that women should feel compelled to solve for men. We can’t even get men to stop abusing US let alone stopping men from abusing other men. Nope, nope nope. Apparently the “new feminism” becoming yet again All About the Men. Men matter, dammit, fatherhood matters, dammit, men beating up other men matters, dammit, prison rape matters, dammit. And it’s the “new feminism” to talk about all the ways MEN struggle against one another in the hierarchical bullshit of the Patriarchy that THEY CREATED.

      But guess what happens when we talk about being female and experiencing these same things AT THE HANDS OF MEN?

      What do you (general: you) think is the standard reply when WOMEN talk about being treated in the EXACT SAME WAY the men are complaining about being treated?

      “STFU you stupid, selfish bitch. Feminism is more than just about you. Now go make me a sammich.”

      Yeah, I haven’t blogged in a while because I am feeling bitter and cold hearted. Maybe, that’s a good thing. :)

      • Justin February 14, 2015 at 2:09 PM #

        Male sends picture of his dick to a heterosexual woman, she’s likely “disgusted.” Male sends picture of his dick to a gay man, he’s likely turned on. What’s the difference? The picture is the exact same – so why such a different reaction? It has little to do with whether one is attracted to the male vs female physique. Rather, it is based on whether one is male or female. Being attracted to a woman’s body vs a man’s is not very relevant in the big picture. The male brain is the male brain, and thinks differently than woman – that seems to have been made abundantly clear on this thread…. I have often been confused by how many women complain about males (maybe they’re feminists, maybe they aren’t) and yet seem to be attracted to very masculine men. Even my most hard-core feminist female friends tell me how much they love a guy with muscles (not ridiculous big, just a nice athletic build). Society worships the female figure more than the male physique – I wish it weren’t that way.

        And so to respond to your comment, pleasing men and pleasing woman are done differently as men and woman are pleased, amused and satisfied differently. There is nothing wrong with that, it’s just the way men and women are wired. Why should everyone be the same? Why should men and women be the same? What a bore that would be! Male and female brains are not the same. We can sit here and wish it away, but then again wishing wells and shopping mall fountains are filled with tossed pennies that nobody is ever getting back. Love is in the air – Happy Valentines Day everyone!

        • Mary Contrary February 15, 2015 at 11:29 AM #

          Wow, just wow. Thank you, Justin, for outing yourself as the passive aggressive MRA I thought you would be. Speak enough truth about the shitty ways men treat women and surprise! The nice guy facade falls away to reveal the abuser behind the mask of “rationality.”

          Society worships the female figure more than the male physique – I wish it weren’t that way.

          LOL@worshipping the female figure. Excuse me, but that’s the most absurd MRA claim I have seen yet. Society worships what MEN want the female form to be. Revering symbols of male standards is just another way to revere men. What men want really matters, which is why women and girls feel compelled to bend over backwards (sometimes literally) to give it to you.

          If the female body were so accepted, there would be no pressure to augment our bodies to resemble childish cartoon characters. There would be no eating disorders. There would be no humiliating beauty rituals like butthole bleaching, ripping our pubes out for closet pedos who can’t get aroused by the sight of natural markers of adulthood, nor would there be chemically laden lotions, cosmetics, perfumes, and other toxic waste dumped on female bodies every day.

          Why, if women were so respected, do we have to do all the above aforementioned things to even be acknowledged as barely human? Why, if female bodies are so respected and valued; are women STILL fighting for our rights to abortion, to NOT be raped, to NOT be abused, to NOT be treated like inferior life forms?

          Please, tell me again how female-specific harm in PIV is still mandatory if men worship and revere the female body so much – KNOWING how pregnancy puts women and girls at social, financial, and educational disadvantage; and increases a woman’s chances of dying if not by childbirth, but by homicide.

          Yes, Justin, mansplain to us yet again how domestic violence, toxic beauty regimens, being paid less, shouldering the lion’s share of society’s unpaid labor – how all of this magically translates to worshipping women’s bodies.

          Despite the mental gymnastics you’ve shown here, I highly doubt you’ll have anything interesting to contribute than “nuh uh! It’s true cuz I’m a guy and I’ve said it, therefore it magically becomes true!” and a repeat of the same tired heterosexist propaganda that revolves around what men approve of and the, quite frankly, antiquated Biblical doctrine of how men and women should be pleasing each other and how we should accept each other’s differences no matter how abusive men are to women. Excuse me, but BARF. You know FOR A FACT if women were forced to sign up for selective service, you would be nowhere to be found talking about the difference between the sexes. You’d be high-fiving “equality” as long as it means women shoulder yet more of society’s burdens. Just like doodbros who talk about equality only when they think a woman should die for the same reasons a man should, even though women die for reasons a man never would.

          And here’s my valentine to you and every other condescending “nice guy” barely passing as a decent human being when it suits you:

        • Sugarpuss February 16, 2015 at 8:29 PM #

          Justin, please do fuck off with that “brain sex” crap. The fact that some people are completely oblivious to the effects of social programming is just mind-boggling, really.

          http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/08/05/3816216.htm

          I have often been confused by how many women complain about males (maybe they’re feminists, maybe they aren’t) and yet seem to be attracted to very masculine men. Even my most hard-core feminist female friends tell me how much they love a guy with muscles (not ridiculous big, just a nice athletic build).

          I think I already addressed this many times before. Effeminate heterosexual men are often the most misogynistic of all, because they take their frustrations with the “alpha males” out on women, because they are cowards. They are also very passive-aggressive and whiny. They are also the ones most likely to pick up a gun and kill a bunch of people because they couldn’t get laid. You know, like this story here that we are commenting on. I’m getting pretty tired of seeing misogyny being associated with physical fitness. WTF? About 95% of my negative experiences have been with geeky dudes who are desperate to prove that they are even moar manly than those “faggots” who hang out at the gym.

          Truth is, if “alpha” status is based purely on influence & financial standing, the men who are complaining the loudest are already in charge. The richest men in the world aren’t athletes, last time I checked. And I’ve never seen a bodybuilder hacking Feminist websites. LOL Geeky dudes are the ones sitting highest on the throne of power, but they have managed to brainwash everyone (except for me, of course) into thinking it’s the exact opposite. What a con job.

          Society worships the female figure more than the male physique – I wish it weren’t that way.

          Exploitation & degradation aren’t even remotely equatable to “worship”. Go take a ride in the cluemobile, and let me know when you arrive at the gates of realityville.

          And as for this….

          Male sends picture of his dick to a heterosexual woman, she’s likely “disgusted.” Male sends picture of his dick to a gay man, he’s likely turned on.

          Eh…. what sort of man are we talking about? I’m pretty sure I speak for everyone (of both sexes and all orientations) when I say that nobody wants to see a nude pic of someone whom they find physically unattractive. Let’s think about the type of dude who usually sends these sort of pics. Speaking from personal, first-hand experience, the vast majority are pot-bellied slouches with skin that resembles a lovely shade of expired bomb shelter mayo. Yeah…. PASS.

          • Mary Contrary February 19, 2015 at 1:07 PM #

            I’m pretty sure I speak for everyone (of both sexes and all orientations) when I say that nobody wants to see a nude pic of someone whom they find physically unattractive.

            Yes, this. Exactly. Women also don’t feel this same sense of pride about their bodies and entitlement to contact men without their consent, and I wonder why that is? I don’t think it’s solely biological, either. Women simply aren’t allowed to feel comfortable in their bodies, no matter how beautiful they actually are. Men, on the other hand, are taught to feel pride for just owning penises. The rest is negotiable. Women, on the other hand, aren’t allowed to feel ANY pride, there is always something about their bodies they are pressured to “fix.”

            I’ve been wanting to follow up with a post about the “brain sex” thing, if not here but on my own blog but I’ve been a bit busy. Perhaps I can articulate something over the weekend. But I realized shortly after posting my response to Justin that he’s neatly summarized ND’s entire point that MRAs are the most successful candidates of being the biggest misandrists ever. Aren’t they the ones who keep telling everyone that men can’t help but be aggressive assholes, and even if they can, they don’t want to which would technically make them sociopaths? So they argue feminists by expounding all the problems associated with the male condition? Great job. They can stop, any day now, of accusing feminists of “man hating” when they’re right here mansplainin and skoolin’ us all in all the ways men are fucked up.

            It’s my opinion that both biology and sociological forces that are at work here, in a self-reinforcing positive feedback loop also talked about on FCM’s blog. Abuse creates epigenetic markers that make men more susceptible to violent behavior, men act out violence in a society that considers it normal and natural, and via mandatory PIV they in turn sire/colonize yet more violent men in the wombs of women. She’s right – twice was probably enough.

            It goes without saying that MRAs only care about biological essentialism when it’s about condoning shitty behavior in men. They could care less about the long term generational consequences all of this poses to women, or to even the trajectory of evolution of our own species. They want to beat their chests and act like Tarzan, then claim to be the most evolved life form? LOL, right.

            PS – your other comments made me smile. You’re awesome! :) Thanks for coming by and saying hi on my blog.

      • Sugarpuss February 16, 2015 at 10:34 PM #

        Yeah, I haven’t blogged in a while because I am feeling bitter and cold hearted. Maybe, that’s a good thing. :)

        Ah, I feel like that most of the time. :) I was really amused by your last post, btw. “turk mer jerb!” LMAO

  27. Sugarpuss February 18, 2015 at 11:45 AM #

    http://ladiesappreciationlife.tumblr.com/whatis

    Conformity; the new “feminism”.

    *facepalms myself all the way to hell & back*

    • Mary Contrary February 21, 2015 at 11:05 AM #

      Good lord. This looks all too much an antifeminist provocateur upholding conformity over self-preservation. Only an antifeminist believes that feminists are telling other women how to live their lives.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. The myth of the “manipulated man” | Your god is a fraud - July 8, 2014

    […] pro-feminist and other resources on masculinity: Elliot Rodger and the pandemic of masculinity Refusing to Be A Man, John Stoltenberg Men being men is a bad deal: Guys should evolve beyond […]

  2. I see what you did there. | feminism first - February 21, 2015

    […] is the predictable response of men who defend anti-female bigotry?   That’s right – men are just naturally abusive, they thrive on unwanted contact, and expecting them to stop being abusers is a pointless waste of […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 521 other followers