An Open Letter to Bang-on Custom T-Shirts

7 Dec

Dear Head Canadian T-shirt Bro (or, President and/or CEO of Bang-on Custom T-Shirts Ltd.) Craig Doyle,

I’m not sure that I expect much from people who are making novelty/faux-vintage t-shirts in 2012, but I felt compelled to write after a recent visit to your Atlanta, Georgia outlet in the carnival of ill-conceived attempts at rebellion known as the Little Five Points neighborhood. While perusing the otherwise banal and innocuous bits of disjointed pop culture detritus that make up the bulk of your t-shirt designs, I found myself facing the back wall of the store, where my eyes came to rest upon a t-shirt emblazoned with the words “I choked Linda Lovelace” in a VH-1-attempts-a-70s-look font.

While I can probably follow the train of thought that deposited your designers into the trough of depraved stupidity from which they dispatched this particular design, I wonder if you or your management team have done likewise. If not, you’re too stupid to run a company. If so, you’re too big of an asshole.

Let me elaborate. It’s likely (nay, it’s nearly impossible that it’s otherwise) that the dude who brought this sartorial satori to the world was just some thoughtless dick who doesn’t think much one way or the other about the porn industry and its effects on women. He’s probably heard of (or seen — retro porn to match one’s retro camera) Deep Throat, is familiar with the subject matter, and figured he’d stumbled upon a way to make an “I have a big dick” t-shirt clever and/or funny. While that’s a worthy pursuit, he’d have been far better off going with one that said “I have a big dick.” Instead, he submitted — and your company produced — a t-shirt that says, “To me, women’s bodies are just dick-measuring instruments in a never-ending contest between supposedly heterosexual men.”

Your design dude (one would hope) was probably not aware that Linda Lovelace was coerced into participating in the production of Deep Throat and several other works of pornography — including a bestiality film — and that Chuck Traynor, her “manager” and husband, beat her, raped her, allowed other men to gang rape her, kept her prisoner, and threatened her life with deadly weapons on several occasions. Whoops! Making a dick joke at the expense of a brutalized woman is a faux-pas all the way, dude.

As embarrassed as you ought to be by this bit of egregiously obtuse insensitivity, it’s only half of the problem. Let’s say — as might most dudes who are invested in believing that women enjoy being sexually abused so half-wit men like those who design your t-shirts can jack off more efficiently — that Lovelace lied about having been raped and actually participated in the making of Deep Throat willingly (despite never having received any compensation for her participation). Deep Throat is a movie about a woman whose clitoris is located in her esophagus, and who therefore seeks out opportunities to fellate men, inserting their penises down her throat to a point that would make anyone on Earth choke and likely puke. Quick, find me a real, live woman with a clitoris in her throat, or even one who reaches orgasm via deep-throating penises. Not one who is paid to pretend so, but an actual woman who has a clitoris in her throat or enjoys the sensation of impending organ damage. If you find the former, I’ll give you a million dollars. If you find the latter, I’ll be shocked, and I’ll show you a woman who has been so psychologically traumatized by men and the porn industry that her body no longer heeds its own instincts. No man believes that such a woman exists. Ergo, men who are excited by the concept or actualization of deep-throating find it arousing despite (or because of) the fact that they know it causes pain and instinctive fear.

Linda Lovelace — even though you’ve probably seen her blow someone on film — was a human being. I know that this is a difficult concept for porn users to grasp, but she had emotions, she had nerve endings that detected pain and bodily damage, she had an esophagus that existed to protect her digestive system from intrusion. Women’s bodies do not exist to be used and abused by men, even if men are willing to pay a lot of money for the privilege. No one wants to be choked, injured, or gagged for the sake of assuaging some narcissistic dunce’s penis anxiety, nor does the absence of a gag reflex indicate that a particular woman was created by the cosmos as a dick receptacle.

The lack of consideration for women’s humanity evinced in a t-shirt that reads “I choked Linda Lovelace” would be shocking if it weren’t so ubiquitous. That we have been so desensitized to the sexual abuse of women by the porn industry and by societal misogyny that people continue to shop at a store that sells a shirt that basically says my human dignity and bodily integrity are less important than the size of your dick ought to worry you enough to make you question your participation in the perpetuation of that idea. If that’s too much to ask, then at least stick to designs with less room for interpretation. Say, “Fuck Art Let’s Dance!” for example. It’s safer that way.

Until then, I’ll encourage as many people as I can to boycott your stores.

Sincerely,

ND

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131 Responses to “An Open Letter to Bang-on Custom T-Shirts”

  1. Feminist Rag December 7, 2012 at 9:55 PM #

    Brav-fucking-O! Sociopathic marketing indeed. I wonder if the guys behind this shirt idea and those who like it will understand a quarter of what you’ve so brilliantly word-ninja’d here. If not, I’d like to know what it will take to get through the layers of inhumanity these people have that keeps them from understanding these simple Truths.

  2. Nick Nakorn December 8, 2012 at 3:25 AM #

    I always think that male culture is completely confused about porn; on one hand men are extraordinarily ‘protective’ (in a very limited way) of mothers, sisters and (sometimes) spouses while being generally misogynistic. The tragedy is that many supposedly feminist organizations and websites are so complicit in the process; I used to follow and sometimes contribute to Dodson and Ross but, over the past few years they too have joined the weird ‘porn empowers’ bandwagon – accompanied by all sorts of New-age woo that seems to be controlled by a couple of men who have joined their team. I’m sure that part of the equation is financial but, mostly, it seems to me, it’s to do with needing to belong; the prevailing culture is so powerful that, for many, it’s just too difficult to stand outside it.

  3. isme December 8, 2012 at 7:38 AM #

    Apparently, two movies and a musical are being/have been made about her. One would hope they’d do justice to the serious issues involved, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d turn out comparable to the shirt.

  4. Posie Parker December 8, 2012 at 9:02 AM #

    They also have a “Girls with low self esteem film crew” which is shit, but the Linda Lovelace one is so much worse. Couldn’t agree with you article more.

  5. Posie Parker December 8, 2012 at 9:13 AM #

    You have inspired me to write to every ebayer, amazon shop and retailler that is selling this shirt.

  6. oneangrygirl December 8, 2012 at 11:59 AM #

    did you get a response?

  7. H December 8, 2012 at 12:51 PM #

    Wow… That’s superbly written. Maybe you will find this article interesting. http://www.democraticunderground.com/125513746 Yes, I am sexist. I like women more than men. I choose To sleep with women because I cannot deal with “stupid” Anyway.. I know not all men are bad .. My father is a good man. Some of my best friends are male ;). But this article brought out a hint of compassion from me. After all, men are generally too stupid to realize what she is saying.

    Thanks for the article H

    Sent from my iPhone

  8. Sugarpuss December 8, 2012 at 7:26 PM #

    Linda Lovelace — even though you’ve probably seen her blow someone on film — is a human being.

    Was. She died in a carwreck, a few years ago, which makes these T-shirts all the more appalling. However, nothing men do really surprises me anymore. I just read a GQ article about that little 11 year old girl who was gang raped in Texas. According to the article, the video footage that was being recorded by these pedophiles revealed that one of the rapists ejaculated on her face. Gee…I wonder where they got the idea to do that?

    And some idiots claim that men don’t emulate porn. What a crock of crap!

  9. Word-Ninja’ing is right! Well-done, ND. Couldn’t agree more.

    In NYC, I’m seeing t-shirts being sold everywhere with a HUGE, explicit (fully nude) porn photo centered in the middle of the t-shirt, as in a photo that’s about 12 inches by 18 inches!! As in, you can’t miss it, even if you were walking on the other side of the street. I am not talking about pin-up girls being featured. I’m talking absolute pornography. WTF?
    There’s oh, about 10 lovely t-shirts to select from, but the most offensive one shows a woman on all fours, her bottom and crotch facing the viewer, her knees spread, with the giant caption above the photo in big block letters: “READY”

    The only thing a wearer of this t-shirt better be ready for is my boot up his ass if I see him wearing it. Whatever did happen to the obscenity laws? Whatever happened to my right to NOT feel terrorized by some men’s insistence on treating women’s bodies (or their images) as sperm repositories and wearing t-shirts in public that advertise such offensive, soul-crushing messages?

    Glad you stood up to this crap….hitting them in their corporate wallets is the only way to get through, so I’m glad you took action.

  10. lizor December 9, 2012 at 8:47 AM #

    I just came across this piece on a gift site called spencer’s. BIG TRIGGER WARNING to anyone who chooses to look at the pics of these t-shirts in the article.

    Suffice to say that forwarding your letters of protest to these scum is also apropo.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/20-examples-that-spencers-gifts-hates-women

    • Nine Deuce December 9, 2012 at 3:46 PM #

      Oh my fucking god, Lizor. That was terrifying.

  11. Sugarpuss December 9, 2012 at 12:16 PM #

    A bit off-topic, but I just found something very disgusting:

    It’s foolish for women to dress “too provactively” if they don’t want to be hit on by men they don’t know, or they don’t want to receive powerful stares or hear cat calls. To hell with what society “supposedly” tells women about the way they should look. Women only need to be attractive to the one man they want to sleep with, not to millions of men they don’t want to sleep with.

    Women need to make sure they don’t dress in a manner that attracts unwanted attention. There’s a reason I don’t go swimming in the ocean with a bucket of blood. I don’t want to attract sharks.

    Women need to realize that the world around them is a glorified mens’ prison. Most men outside of prison are only a little bit more civilized than most men inside prison. Men on the outside have almost identical sexual wiring to men on the inside. Many incarcerated men will be let loose back into society. With that in mind, women should dress and act in a manner that doesn’t stir the inmates’ powerful sexual instincts.

    It’s a comment on a blog: http://broadblogs.com/2011/12/12/men-who-hate-pretty-women/#comment-20266

    I think it’s interesting that men say shit like this, and then have the audacity to believe they are somehow superior to women. If men are truly slaves to their biology, then they ALL belong behind bars, so that they can no longer terrorize women & girls.

  12. Boner Killer December 10, 2012 at 8:54 PM #

    First of all, holy fuck, i’m glad you’re back.
    Second, holy fuck, i have seen t-shirts like this! i went about a year ago to another one of these types of stores and there was full on porn prints…and kids were looking through the books with their parents, it was crazy!

    Will share!

  13. Sugarpuss December 11, 2012 at 8:36 PM #

    Boner Killer said

    [...]there was full on porn prints…and kids were looking through the books[...]

    And when the boys grow up, they’ll probably date-rape someone annnnnd….(wait for it)……………………….(waaaaaait for it)……

    ……everyone will blame single mothers. Men are destroying the world, but it’s women’s fault, as always.

  14. Bubble Buster December 12, 2012 at 5:06 AM #

    All I can say is…WOW….Let me say it again….WOW. WHAT a writer….. Thank you.

  15. Sugarpuss December 13, 2012 at 8:11 PM #

    Does anybody know where I can find a size 34B bra that IS NOT FUCKING PADDED?

    I’m so sick of everything being designed strictly for male approval. Fucking shitty men. I wish I could kick every single one of them in their nutsacks until they puke blood all over their sneakers. Where’s the padded jockstraps for all the pencil-dicked MRAs??? Men’s clothing is all about functionality and comfort, while women get stuck with overpriced, ill-fitting CRAP. As far as this bra situation goes, I’m stuck with sports bras because, apparently, nobody even makes normal bras anymore. I guess all this padding is some asshole male’s idea of shaming small-breasted women for not getting a boob job. Men love to destroy all things natural, and replace them with artificiality. But most of all, they just love to make female-bodied persons miserable. Fucking sadists.

    /rant

    • Nine Deuce December 14, 2012 at 3:11 AM #

      Can someone get me a 38D with no padding?

  16. lizor December 14, 2012 at 6:26 AM #

    Thanks for the rant Sugarpuss, I second every word.

    I comb second hand stores whenever I am nearby for un-foamed bras. I can sometimes find a new-seeming, unpadded bra that fits, but hard to find that without underwires.

  17. Sugarpuss December 14, 2012 at 5:35 PM #

    @92: Wow, they’re padding that size too?! Why in the HELL would a D cupper need padding??? The dudes who design this crap must be fucking insane.

    @lizor: I’ve never seen bras at thrift stores. Sounds kinda gross, actually. I don’t do second-hand unmentionables because germs. And don’t even get me started on the topic of underwires.

  18. CPB December 15, 2012 at 12:48 AM #

    What exactly is the purpose of bra underwire? Has anyone explained the functionality of underwire yet?

  19. sneeky bunny December 15, 2012 at 9:45 PM #

    92 and Sugarpuss, take a look at Freya bras. They have a wide selection. Sorry I’m crap at links.

    http://www.herroom.com/Freya,bras,Fre001,001,23.html?&kwid=4f808c4d9f394bd9af0c07a37ffeb5c0&gclid=CMug5q2AnrQCFUlxQgodfwsATQ

  20. Sugarpuss December 15, 2012 at 11:02 PM #

    @CPB: To lift our ugly, saggy teets. Can’t be looking natural! Gotta have those girls jacked up to our chins, to appease Master.

  21. lizor December 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM #

    @ Sugarpuss. Can’t help but feel a bit defensive here now that I have been accused of purchasing germ-filled garments. Lots of people throw out clothes with the tags still on and frankly, I am not sure why a second-hand blouse that touches your back, belly and neck is any less disgusting than a bra that touches the your breasts. The bottom line is I cannot afford new bras and I have to wear one, so I buy mine at charity shops.

    Underwires shove your boobs up and into a porny round shape. They are also linked with breast cancer, I suppose because the restrict circulation to the breasts and lymph glands.

  22. Sugarpuss December 18, 2012 at 5:54 PM #

    @Lizor: My income is less than $12,000 per year. So, I can assure you that I’m also poor. Walmart bras are quite cheap, as are Family Dollar bras, BUT…they are all padded. Oh, and I have OCD, so I would appreciate it if you didn’t hate on me for my fuss over germs. That’s very ableist. A bra from a thrift store is my idea of hell; my skin squirms just thinking about it. That’s just the way my brain works. Don’t judge the crazy folks, mmmkay?

  23. Sugarpuss December 18, 2012 at 6:00 PM #

    @sneeky bunny: Now THOSE bras are expensive. And much too patriarchy compliant. I’m not one of the gals at your uber-liberal pro-porn rallies.

  24. sneeky bunny December 18, 2012 at 8:54 PM #

    They certainly are expensive! I don’t own any of them myself, my bra needs are less specific than yours or 92, but I have friends who are both well endowed, and don’t like padding, and they swear by this site. It would be nice if finding a decent bra did not have to involve taking out the equivalent of a car loan for your boobs.
    To that end Warner’s is a brand you might like to check out. They have a line of soft cup, no underwire, fairly simple bras that run around 30$. They wouldn’t work for 92, :( but for a 34B, such as yourself, they might be just what you’re looking for.

  25. lizor December 19, 2012 at 1:41 PM #

    Sugarpuss – Seriously?

    Can you just take a moment and reread the thread?

    Nowhere in your post did you indicate that you have OCD. I had no way of knowing that.

    Twisting this exchange around to me being “ableist” for defending my purchase of used clothing instead of buying new items from Walmart (Walmart!?!) and “oppressing” you is unfair, to put it kindly. I did not “hate on” you. In fact, I had just thanked you and supported your previous post when you decided to call me unclean.

    You imagine you are being “hated on” by someone who defends themselves when you shit on them? Do you find most for your fights start when the other person hits you back?

    If you actually read what I wrote, you can see that I said absolutely nothing shaming to you whatsoever. I said that I felt defensive after reading your post implying that I have bad hygiene – which you know is a constant accusation levelled at poor people. You came off as classist, not as someone with OCD. Now that you have upped the ante by insulting me further, I feel defensive, upset and panicky. I’m sorry you live with OCD, but that does not give you license to hate on people who are on your team (FFS!) and who may, if you gave it a moments’ consideration, have their own struggles and impediments.

  26. Sugarpuss December 20, 2012 at 6:50 PM #

    Alright, I’m not in the mood for this SHIT.

    Nowhere in your post did you indicate that you have OCD. I had no way of knowing that.

    Nowhere in my post did I indicate that I had previously mentioned my OCD. I was telling you so that you would get the FUCK off my back!

    I did not “hate on” you. In fact, I had just thanked you and supported your previous post when you decided to call me unclean.

    Kindly show me where I called you “unclean”. That’s a fucking lie, and you know it. I SAID that the idea of ME wearing a bra from a thrift store freaks me out because of germs. Stop putting words in my mouth.

    You imagine you are being “hated on” by someone who defends themselves when you shit on them?

    What. The. Fuck? Explain how I “shit in you” by stating that I’m afraid of germs? Once again, these tall tales are getting you nowhere because everyone (including you) can easily glance upward and read my post. You’re just twisting what I said and projecting said distortion onto me. The only person I shit on was sneeky bunny, as everyone can clearly see.

    If you actually read what I wrote [...]

    Uh, I suggest you take your own advice. That is the problem, after all. Somehow, you’ve managed to spin “I don’t like thrift stores because germs” into “Lizor is a dirty girl”. That’s a hell of a stretch.

    [...]I felt defensive after reading your post implying that I have bad hygiene[...]

    See? This is the fucking problem. I “implied” no such thing. I’m not responsible for your distorted perceptions of reality. I can’t imagine anybody, anywhere, at anytime, reading “I don’t do second-hand unmentionables because germs”, and interpreting it as “You have bad hygiene”. There’s no personal attack anywhere to be found. I was talking about ME, ME, ME…and my discomfort with the idea of wearing used bras because I’m a FUCKING GERMAPHOBE. Is that enough of an explanation, or will you be requiring the braille version as well?

    [...]which you know is a constant accusation levelled at poor people

    I don’t know what people think of me (you know, cause, I’m poor too, remember?), because I don’t give a damn. And since we’re on the topic…I would like to reveal that I haven’t taken a shower in over a week. That’s how little I care for the opinions of others. Did I mention that my teeth are rotten too?

    You came off as classist [...]

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!111111!!!!! So, lemme get this straight…speaking about things that gross me out, due to my OCD (which has caused me a great deal of misery all my life), I’m being classist towards you? And it doesn’t matter if I have less money than you? I’m simply classist? Case closed? End of?

    Yep, I don’t even have a high school diploma or a GED, but according to the distorted logic of Lizor, I’m a Grade A snob. O_o

    Meanwhile…back in the real world….

  27. Sugarpuss December 20, 2012 at 6:51 PM #

    sneeky bunny said:

    They have a line of soft cup, no underwire, fairly simple bras that run around 30$

    Well, I’d pay half that, but no more.

  28. Sugarpuss December 20, 2012 at 7:06 PM #

    Oh, and Lizor? If you think being poor is so rough, I suggest you try being poor and living with mental illness. It’s no fucking picnic, missy. Especially when everyone attacks you for not acting “normal” (whatever the hell that is).

  29. radicalwoman December 28, 2012 at 9:29 AM #

    Reblogged this on radicalwoman.

  30. Xam January 1, 2013 at 6:35 PM #

    Linda Lovelace was never raped by Ron Jeremy and wasn’t forced into anything. She did it because sadly, she was an easily manipulated individual who was hungry for attention and money. Every woman is not a legitimate victim as just as every man isn’t a rapist. This is getting silly.

    • Nine Deuce January 1, 2013 at 6:47 PM #

      Who said anything about Ron Jeremy? And how do you know what did and did not happen? Were you there? Linda Lovelace was.

  31. JustPlainJain January 2, 2013 at 7:47 AM #

    Man, I don’t know about the pricetag, but I am LOVING those Freya bras, they look sooooooo comfy….I never spend that much on clothes, but I’m very tempted to get one just to see if they can possibly be as comfortable as they look.

    To the lasses arguing the finer points of thrift store clothing, bleach is your friend.
    To kill germs on your clothes (or someone else’s castoffs from thriftville) without ruining them, add 1-3 capfuls (depending on the size of your washer) of chlorine bleach to your pre-filled machine, swish the water around, then add your clothes and let them soak for a few minutes before starting the cycle. The right amount of bleach will sanitize your clothes, even colors and lingerie, without ruining the fabric or color. Trust me, I’m a professional germophobe (among my other titles), I do this every week. This is a good idea to remove germs from your clothing no matter where you bought them, just to reduce the amount of pathogens you inevitably come into contact with in your environment/public places. Imagine how much of other peoples’ germs you come in contact with just riding on a city bus. Ick.

    Also, I’m very leery of the feminist tendency to label all women as helpless victims. Isn’t it just as demeaning as misogyny to assume we’re all helpless victims, incapable of determining our own fate?
    I realize, very acutely, that in other countries women can still be forced/coerced into sex and and prostitution very easily; but modern american women, even of Lovelace’s era, do bear some amount of personal responsibility for their CHOICE to initiate and continue relationships with abusive men.’
    I’m not saying women are never victimized, far from it; but there IS a difference between being forced to do something one doesn’t want to do vs. allowing oneself to be manipulated into doing something one doesn’t want to do, and feminism too often disregards that distinction, as though we are somehow incapable of being responsible for the decisions that lead us into bad situations; which is bullshit, because if I’m capable of being responsible for the good choices I make, then I have to also be responsible for the bad ones that I make too; we can’t have it both ways, unless we want to start calling ourselves “hypocrites” instead of “feminists”.

  32. JustPlainJain January 2, 2013 at 8:11 AM #

    And to clear up the confusion, the underwire is not an oppressive tool of the patriarchy (my, you ladies are highstrung), it is merely an option, among many, that an individual woman (or are you all offended if i don’t say “womyn”?) is free to choose, or not choose, for her individual comfort.
    The “lifting up of our ugly, saggy teats” is not something I do to please any men (who generally prefer to see them braless, in my experience), but something I do to please myself. I’m a 40DD, and I find it very uncomfortable to have 8-10lbs of loose, heavy flesh hanging down sweatily on my ribcage, flopping about and getting in my way, slumping my posture and restricting my breathing. A properly fitted support garment lifts them nicely out of my way, minimizes the stretching and sagging that only add to my discomfort, allows me to have a normal posture, and if it happens to have the tangential effect of also making them look more attractive, that’s nothing for all of you neurotic, angry, b-cup “womyns” to get jealous and hateful over.
    Just thank your lucky stars that you aren’t so afflicted with 10lbs of useless meat sitting on your lungs, and enjoy the freedom from the attention of “nasty, dirty men”, who you all hate anyway, that your little A and B cups allow you.

  33. JustPlainJain January 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM #

    Also, thanks to SP for the broadblogs link— every word of it was utterly true, except for one part;
    Men who hate pretty women never just hate pretty women; they hate all women, but never nearly as much as they hate themselves.

    I’m at a total loss. I spend every day in a state of pure disgust with our entire species, both genders. I don’t know what the answer is, I’m only sure that all the hateful blamelaying coming from both sides of the issue is NOT it.
    In the end I think it’s purely evolutionary and biological; there is no solution, this is just the way the human animal has evolved to be; selfish, insecure, deceptive, contentious, and aggressive (both genders). Whenever I get confounded by human behavior and sexuality, I just look at the biology and behavior of animals, and remind myself that it’s a mistake to imagine that humans should be, or can be, any better, or any different, because clearly, we are not, and we cannot. We are evolved animals and nothing more, so it’s a mistake to assume that we should behave any better than animals, and we usually don’t.

    I leave you with the humble tale of the mating habits of some wild bear species I saw on pbs a few years ago-sorry, can’t remember the exact species, some Russian-grizzly or something. These bears would only come together and associate with one another for three weeks of every year,and for those three weeks, it is a massive orgy of pure, raw, freaky, furious, aggressive, perverse gangbanging sex, not just between mated pairs but whole groups, and competition to ensure that the strongest members of the species will get the best opportunities to pass their genes on to the next generation.
    For the other 49 weeks of the year, these bears are solitary animals who make every effort to avoid coming in contact with eachother by accident, because if they do come in contact with eachother outside of the mating season, it is understood that one of them, the weaker of the two, will have to die.
    I often think humans might be happier if we lived this way, confining all that mating and associated aggression to one month, then going about the business of our lives free of eachother’s bullshit for the rest of the year.
    But, we don’t live that way, and we don’t have the option to live that way, so for as long as I’m obligated to live among other humans and put up with their bullshit, I’m going to have as much fun as I can with it, and capitalize on it every chance I get. It’s better than sitting around feeling bad about stupid shit that can’t be changed. I admire people who are still idealistic enough to believe that it can be changed, but I think all available evidence points strongly to the contrary…

  34. JustPlainJain January 2, 2013 at 9:44 AM #

    some fun linkies for you, because you are so kewl:

    http://www.ehow.com/info_8425118_differences-male-female-sharks.html

    –note the portion on “skin thickness”…

    http://io9.com/5725199/traumatic-insemination-is-pretty-much-the-most-horrific-thing-imaginable

    –just ‘ew’ to all of this…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/09/sex-depravity-penguins-scott-antarctic

    –funny that this was repressed at the time for being too gross, but they never repressed info on praying mantis mating, because in mantises, it’s the FEMALE who seems depraved…

    See what I mean? Humans like to imagine that we’re “better” than other animals because we have developed tools and complex language, but truly we are only differently-adapted animals, not really any better than any other species…

    • Nine Deuce January 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM #

      I really wish that those people making the argument that Lovelace wasn’t forced into anything would do even the most cursory Google research before showing their asses in ignorant comments.

  35. sneekybunny January 2, 2013 at 1:04 PM #

    True, about Linda Lovelace, and google is our friend, but damn 92, out of every thing Jane wrote here, and over on the Roth post, that’s all you have to say? :)

    Jane’s gonna stir some shit up in here, and she seems like she’s got the intellectual chops (and the eyebrow raising arrogance) to make 2013 a lot of fun here in comment land. I can’t wait for Hecate and Gracemargaret (not to mention fede and isme and lizor) to engage. They all have such great brains, and it’s going to be illuminating watching them take her on.

    Oh, and of course I look forward to Sugarpuss making the ritual declaration that Jane must actually be a man. :)

    • Nine Deuce January 2, 2013 at 1:27 PM #

      I wasn’t responding to Jane as much as the previous commenter who thinks I’ve said something about Ron Jeremy in this post (though they are both guilty of it).

  36. isme January 2, 2013 at 1:21 PM #

    JustPlainJane, I dispute that there is a feminist tendency to portray all women as helpless victims. There’s a recognition that many women are victimised in situtations they have no power over, but that’s not the same thing. Saying that women should take responsibility for being in relationships with abusive men is nothing more than victim blaming. Getting out of an abusive relationship is not easy, IIRC, it’s when most women are murdered by an abusive partner. Also, you seem to have a rather rose tinted view of the US. Poverty and unemployment are serious issues, which has serious effects upon the amount of power many US women have. Being forced into prostitution by poverty and lack of jobs isn’t just something that happens to people that don’t speak english.

    While it is true that humans are merely the dominant animal, the fact that we aren’t better than we are is no reason why we can’t be. Progress and improvement are always possible, and something worth working for.

    ND, cynically I’d say all that would do is ensure they were making wilfully ignorant denials, instead of possibly genuinely ignorant ones.

  37. sneekybunny January 2, 2013 at 6:43 PM #

    Ah! thanks for the clarification 92. That makes much more sense!

  38. lizor January 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM #

    @Sugarpuss: You are absolutely right. All the best to you.

  39. lizor January 3, 2013 at 11:48 AM #

    I’m starting my own personal Limbaugh/Coulter Memorial So-Stupid-It’s-Almost-Entertaining statement of the year award. The Ron Jeremy quote stands as the first contender of 2013.

  40. Sugarpuss January 3, 2013 at 2:30 PM #

    @ Xam: Fuck off. Ron Jeremy sucks. The only reason he has a job is because of all the unfuckable slobs who can’t bare to see an attractive man knocking boots with women they will never have access to. And furthermore… as far as I can remember, Ron Jeremy wasn’t even in Deep Throat; that was Harry Reems.

    @ JustPlainJain: You are SO obviously a man. That shit just reeked of the typical ‘silly feminists’ MRA rhetoric that we all know and love. Nice try, but you can’t hide your detachable cock from Sugarpuss.

    @ Sneeky Bunny: You fucking psychic. :D

  41. CPB January 3, 2013 at 2:31 PM #

    @PlainJain: “…that’s nothing for all of you neurotic, angry, b-cup “womyns” to get jealous and hateful over….enjoy the freedom from the attention of “nasty, dirty men”, who you all hate anyway, that your little A and B cups allow you.”

    “I’m very leery of the feminist tendency to label all women as helpless victims.”

    “…there IS a difference between being forced to do something one doesn’t want to do vs. allowing oneself to be manipulated into doing something one doesn’t want to do…”

    “…it’s a mistake to imagine that humans should be, or can be, any better, or any different, because clearly, we are not, and we cannot…it’s a mistake to assume that we should behave any better than animals…”

    Oh, dear. First, if you think small breasts are enough to ward off male attention you are very wrong. Men will fuck inanimate objects, animals, corpses etc. You name it, they’ll fuck it; so I’d climb down from that eye roll inducing, underwire championing, “40DD” pedestal if I were you. As if the only reason a woman could hate men is because she is deemed unfuckable…if only. However, coming from a self-proclaimed sex pozzy prostitute whose income revolves around male approval, I can’t say I’m surprised. It’s funny; you stated that prostitution was empowering (elsewhere) and yet you never mentioned why. *sigh* Miss Cleo, infomercial fraud extraordinaire, was able to capitalize on the desperation of *both* sexes without eating a dick, and without running the risk of contracting an STD or incurring violence. Now that’s what I call an opportunist thriving in a patriarchy.

    Second, coercion *is* force. Even our justice system is relatively clear about that one. There is no such thing as “allowing” oneself to be coerced. One either willingly gives consent or they do not. Here’s hoping your buddy Xam, upthread, gets the message too.

    Finally, your last quote I cited is one of the biggest loads of bullshit I’ve ever heard. Our frontal lobe, cortex, and, in turn, cognizance is more than enough to expect human behavior/thoughts to supersede animal behavior/thoughts, especially where morality is concerned. Animals aren’t even capable of the cognition required for self-aware thought processes let alone their potential to harm others; we are. Big fucking difference. Humans have the ability to spot injustice, take initiative, and change their environment. Get a clue, asshole.

    Interesting….. Clutters up blog with several unnecessarily lengthy, self-aggrandizing posts? Check. Perpetuation of dehumanizing stereotypes? Check. Absolutist arguments? Check. On board with evolutionary psychology? Check. Telling feminists what to be offended by (not prostitution), how they should feel about oppression (not angry), and how to express their frustration (apathy)? Check. Ugh. Some people will readily buy arrogant, bullshit posturing as intelligence, but not me. You aren’t a paragon of wisdom and, believe me, it shows.

  42. Sugarpuss January 3, 2013 at 2:45 PM #

    Waaaait a minute, Sneeks…. intellectual chops? That ridiculous Jain character? If you agree with even 10% of what it said, then you’re even more deluded than previously thought. You almost seem excited by all of that anti-feminist bullocks. I’ve always wondered about where you really stand, and all of this giddiness over some shit-for-brains troll is yet another reason to question your position.

  43. Sugarpuss January 3, 2013 at 8:31 PM #

    Great takedown, CPB. I honestly didn’t have the strength, and I needed cake.

    Miss Cleo, infomercial fraud extraordinaire, was able to capitalize on the desperation of *both* sexes without eating a dick, and without running the risk of contracting an STD or incurring violence. Now that’s what I call an opportunist thriving in a patriarchy.

    LMAO Word.

  44. sneekybunny January 3, 2013 at 10:21 PM #

    Did ya not see where I said I looked forward to the denizens of this blog with their great brains, taking Jane to task?

    Did ya not see the sentence in which I characterized Jane as being possessed of eyebrow raising arrogance? The phrase which I bolded no less?

    Just because Jane is wrong about a great deal, and very,very full of herself does not mean that she is stupid. She can most certainly write, has taken a great deal of time and thought developing her positions, and to be frank, some her comments regarding Phillip Roth were quite insightful. All of which means that any debate that may occur between her and say, Gracemargaret, for example will be considerably more interesting than if she were some run of the mill mouth breather.

    And of course I knew you would assume that Jane was a man. You think every one is a man.

  45. Sugarpuss January 4, 2013 at 2:50 PM #

    Did ya not see where I said I looked forward to the denizens of this blog with their great brains, taking Jane to task?

    Yeah…and I also noticed that you were keen to leave my name out of that lineup. Not to brag, but I’ve been told (by those who matter) that I am quite intelligent, especially for someone who was never privileged enough to obtain a formal education beyond 7th grade (I kid you not). When I see things like that, I can’t help but wonder if it’s an intentional, underhanded, passive-aggressive jab being directed at me, just because I don’t support the whole choicey-choice kinkster mindset. Or maybe you have issues with women who use the word “FUCK”? Could that be it? Could you be one of those annoying people who believes that “smart people” never use profanity? I’ve seen that attitude a lot. To be perfectly honest, I’d rather throw out a good dose of expletives (which tends to make people laugh, and helps me relieve stress) than use snotass, show-offy adjectives like “peppery”. LMFAO! Who even talks like that in RL? Oh, and the people who read this blog aren’t “denizens”; they don’t live here. LOL @ word salad failure.

    Did ya not see the sentence in which I characterized Jane as being possessed of eyebrow raising arrogance? The phrase which I bolded no less?

    And this has exactly jack-shit to do with what I said. Accusing Jain of arrogance doesn’t undo the compliment you laid at it’s feet. If it thinks somebody, anybody, agrees, on any level, with it’s idiotic rhetoric, it will continue to post…and I don’t like that. If I want to see that crap, I can turn on the fucking TV. So, PLEASE, next time you feel the urge to serve as an MRA cheerleader, picture me on a poster, holding a square of conrbread and a pint of some off-brand milk, with the words “Save The Sugarpuss” beneath my image. Thanks. It’ll really help.

    Just because Jane is wrong about a great deal, and very,very full of herself does not mean that she is stupid.

    You’re right. That’s not what makes it stupid. It’s claim of “we’re all animals”, while gushing over colorful bras does…among other things (like, the FACT that female animals aren’t competitive, but collaborative, and it was attempting to compete with me, based on something as meaningless as boob size). I’m very curious about your definition of un-stupidness. Was it the link-fetching that got you going?

    She can most certainly write[...]

    Yeah. Mainstream piffle.

    [...]has taken a great deal of time and thought developing her positions[...]

    I’ll have to disagree. It doesn’t take very long at all to hatch crap like that. I think a few brief moments of viewing the Spike channel would provide more than enough inspiration.

    [...]some her comments regarding Phillip Roth were quite insightful[...]

    I am gleefully unaware of this fucknozzle’s existence. But, let me guess, he’s one of the many “progressive” pro-kink stains whose leg you’d love to hump?

    [...]if she were some run of the mill mouth breather[...]

    If? My, what low standards you have. Idiots come in many forms. Just because Jain is capable of semi-coherent thought, that doesn’t make it intelligent.

    And of course I knew you would assume that Jane was a man. You think every one is a man

    Lies aren’t going to win this debate, Sneeker. To the best of my recollection, there is only one other person I’ve accused of being a man, posing as a woman. It was yet another advocate of the BDSM woman-hating lifestyle. After all this time, it’s still chapping your ass. LOL Good to know that I’m that effective.

    Lastly, I’d like to add that you can’t win an argument with me. Ever. At any time. I will always defeat you with the simple, honest truth. And I’m talking about real truth…the kind that come from non-conforming Radical Feminists. Not the male-centric, toxic sludge that women are force-fed from the cradle to the grave. Fuck that. And fuck you too.

  46. sneekybunny January 5, 2013 at 3:20 AM #

    My, my feeling slighted that I didn’t mention you by name! What an elaborate paranoid explanation you have woven as to why that might be. You do have a little crush on me don’t you.
    And oh my goodness! You use the word fuck? You mean like every single person on this blog? No! The hell you say! No one cares how much you swear Sugarpuss. You can curse like pirate with a splinter in his ass, and much joy may it bring you. The only voice judging you for profanity is the one in your head.

    You are awfully touchy about your lack of education as well aren’t you?

    There are three definitions of the word denizen FYI, of which is this:

    one that frequents a place

    A place such as this blog. This blog which contains a lengthy post by 92 on the subject of the author Phillip Roth, by the way, and a fucknozzle he most certainly is.

    With the exception of her take down of Phillip Roth, I never said that I agreed with anything Jain had to say. I said that it would be interesting to watch the very smart women on this blog take her on. I don’t agree with anything George Will has to say either, but that doesn’t negate his intelligence. To assume stupidity on the part of one’s opponent by virtue of their simply being one’s opponent would be juvenile and short sighted.

    But my dear! Didn’t you accuse isme of being a man only yesterday? Why yes you did, and instructed them to never speak to you again as well. Has isme said they were male? I’ve been reading this blog for a few years now and I don’t recall them doing so, but I may have missed it.
    You have an active imagination Sugarpuss, one in which you play an heroic role crossing swords with me in a battle which does not exist.
    Oh and those bras I mentioned were on sale buy one get one half off at Kohls the other day, in case you still need some new ones.

    • Nine Deuce January 5, 2013 at 10:05 AM #

      God lord, Sugarpuss. Take it easy.

  47. Sugarpuss January 6, 2013 at 11:43 AM #

    @ sneekybunny: I don’t have time to reply to your ass, at this moment, but there is one thing I’d like to address. YES INDEED…isme is a man… HE SAID SO…on many occasions. LOL You’re so observant.

  48. Sugarpuss January 6, 2013 at 11:58 AM #

    Wait, you know what? I’m going to submit my official reply right now. Annnnnd my official rebuttal is….*drumroll*….

    You’re just imagining that I am paranoid because YOU are paranoid. Everything you accused me of was a figment of your imagination. In fact, I didn’t even post here…this is all a dream! Reality is subjective, ya know. So, you might want to stop talking to (and about) yourself. :)

    Two can play that dismissive “just your imagination” shit. Enjoy.

  49. Sugarpuss January 6, 2013 at 12:06 PM #

    92 said:

    God lord, Sugarpuss. Take it easy.

    Like Sunday morning.

  50. Sugarpuss January 6, 2013 at 3:40 PM #

    Random thoughts….

    My mother has always despised by tendency to question everything. She’s one of those “oh well, that’s just the way things are” types. She used to say “you read too much into everything”. A typical childhood scenario went something like this:

    9 year-old Sugarpuss: Mom, why do you shave your legs?

    Mom: So I’ll look nice

    9 year old Sugarpuss: Why is leg hair considered “not nice”?

    Mom: Because it looks bad.

    9 year old Sugarpuss: So how come men don’t shave their legs? Why is it okay for them to look bad?

    Mom: You’re driving me crazy! You think about this shit way too much. That’s just the way it is. I don’t make the rules!

    And then she served me a hamburger that was as big as my head.

    • Nine Deuce January 6, 2013 at 11:37 PM #

      Isme – Are you a man? I don’t ask for any reason other than my own curiosity, as I have apparently never noticed one way or the other.

    • Nine Deuce January 6, 2013 at 11:41 PM #

      Also, Sugarpuss: I really enjoy Lizor’s participation here, as well as your own. I really do NOT enjoy seeing radfems fight. Can we please save our vitriol for men?

  51. isme January 7, 2013 at 6:17 AM #

    I don’t recall mentioning it before, but yes, I am a man. I recognise that I should be more careful with what I say in places that aren’t my own.

  52. lizor January 7, 2013 at 7:59 AM #

    ND, thanks so much for that.

    Sneeky – I so enjoy your comments, even when we have sometimes not agreed. I felt before SP actually posted the statement, “you can’t win an argument with me. Ever. At any time.” that this was the case in any exchange with her, so I bowed out.

    I don’t come here to argue, not in the western [patriarchal] debate model where one “wins” and one “loses”. I love the disparate perspectives and nuances here and I come here to counter a sense of isolation and alienation I tend to feel outside of a space that is relatively safe for feminist discourse. I found it very difficult to be vilified in that way by a person with whom I have felt so much empathy and whose insights and wit I have enjoyed so much these past couple of years.

    Some comments do make me very hot under the collar, mostly from obvious trolls and mansplainers, but the vitriol between us in this case has certainly left me feeling cautious about posting my thoughts.

    At any rate, 2013 is sure to be a rocky road and we (the big WE) are going to need all of the clear voices from radical feminists as possible.

    Here in Kanaduh, the cover has been ripped off settlers’ deep apartheid-like racism towards first nations people thanks to Chief Spence’s hunger strike and the Idle No More movement. The racist pile-on in online comments sections is very disturbing, but I tell myself that this is a phase in the process: tearing away the denial and fantasy that we are such a bastion of liberal tolerance.

    I also tell myself that a similar process is happening in feminist politics, with the undeniable hatred displayed by candidates in the last US election.
    Let’s keep the faith and keep up the conversation.

    Love to all of our comrades here.

    Lizor

  53. lizor January 7, 2013 at 1:37 PM #

    JPJ – initially, I did not read your posts after a quick perusal as I was quite busy they seemed flippant and somewhat uninteresting, but having just done so I will ask you to quit making generalizations about us “all” here in this comment section. “all of you neurotic, angry, b-cup “womyns””, “all of you neurotic, angry, b-cup “womyns”” and your swift conclusion that us “ladies” are all “high strung” really sticks in my craw. If you have a point to make, make it without making assumptions about the many individuals who read and sometimes comment on this blog.

    To kill germs on my clothes, I wash them. I don’t need to be enlightened about the properties of bleach as if its killing properties were some secret any more than I care to read someone who refers to me as a “lady” or a “lassie” make clichéd assumptions about me.

    As for animal behaviour citations in discussions of gender essentialism, it’s a snooze. For one thing, very few people have spent enough time in the company of non-human wild species to really understand the nuances and vagaries of their behaviour. Even “scientific” studies, due to funding and schedule limitations, generally involve researchers spending very limited amounts of time in wilderness areas (Goodall & her ilk notwithstanding) and have a very limited of what individuals and populations actually do over time.

    The popular press reporting on “findings” of gendered behaviour in animal populations is akin to medical/health and diet reporting. It is highly problematic, lacking in rigour and generally sensational.

    I get you frustration with people for sure, but coming here presuming to lump as all into some category of “angry women” is offensive.

  54. sneekybunny January 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM #

    Do’h. Totally posted in the wrong thread. Teach me to post from my phone. LOL.

  55. Sugarpuss January 7, 2013 at 4:21 PM #

    92 said:

    Also, Sugarpuss: I really enjoy Lizor’s participation here, as well as your own. I really do NOT enjoy seeing radfems fight. Can we please save our vitriol for men?

    I don’t have any problems with Lizor. For some reason, she thought I was insulting her choice to buy bras at thrift stores. *shrug* I was just talking about how the idea of second-hand underthings makes me cringe because of my OCD (among other mental conditions, which I wont get into here). I’m about as far from being classist as it gets; I despise upper-middle class types…and I could get into a HUGE speech about all of that….so I certainly NEVER judge anybody for shopping at thrift stores. Hell, I’ve gotten all kinds of heat from the “Walmart is evil and you’re supporting capitalism by shopping there” crowd. Well, too fucking bad. I can’t afford anything else. LOL And then there are all of those annoying catch phrases like “organic” and “fair trade” being thrown around by elitist assholes who have enough disposable income for such things. I’ve bought some of that stuff (with food stamps, no less), but it’s an occasional treat, at best. So, yeah, trust me, I’m not classist nor do I have anything against Lizor. That entire conversation felt like a step into quicksand.

  56. Sugarpuss January 7, 2013 at 4:42 PM #

    Lizor said:

    [...] the vitriol between us in this case has certainly left me feeling cautious about posting my thoughts

    See, I don’t understand this. What thoughts are you referring to? All I did was talk about how the idea of potential germs on second-hand bras give me the creeps. If anything, I feel as if I need to walk on eggshells, when expressing myself, for fear of offending someone (happens a lot). I don’t know what to say other than this is just the way I am. I refuse to take medication because I am very much an anti-drug type (except for caffiene!). I have difficulty even performing simple housecleaning tasks, because I’m afraid I’ll get the germs on my hands (gloves don’t help much because I feel the constant need to change them). The vacuum cleaner is another problem, as I can’t stand to see the dirt in the container when it needs to be emptied. The sight of a dead bug (especially crickets) induces my gag reflex (as does common household dirt; I literally feel like I’m going to throw up). I am also a bit of a hoarder. I am also an Asspie (lol aspergers). It’s a complicated situation and I’m just tired of people expecting “normal” from me. But, just because I’m a nut, that doesn’t mean I don’t know what I’m talking about, or that my observations are flawed (I’m not suggesting that you think that. I’m talking about others).

  57. Sugarpuss January 7, 2013 at 5:34 PM #

    sneekybunny said:

    Do’h. Totally posted in the wrong thread. Teach me to post from my phone. LOL.

    Yeah, and it was pure crap. You apologized to a man, while shitting on a woman whom you implied was wrong about isme’s sex. See, this is why I have issues with you; you have more respect for a member of the oppressor class than one of your own.

    How can I respect that?

  58. sneekybunny January 7, 2013 at 7:13 PM #

    Sugarpuss you were right that isme is male. Good looking out on your part, especially since not even 92 caught that and it’s her blog.
    But yeah you do tend to go off and project motives onto people that don’t necessarily exist. That was certainly the case in our discussion regarding Jain. All that stuff about not being mentioned by name because I disapprove of swearing, my loving Phillip Roth, my agreeing with Jain:
    All totally in your head.
    You are of course free to continue to tilt at bunny shaped windmills if you care to, but maybe your energy would be better spent, oh I don’t know, taking on Jain instead which was the sort of thing I was advocating in my original post. To wit: looking forward to the smart women on this blog challenging her.

  59. Sugarpuss January 7, 2013 at 11:54 PM #

    sneekybunny said:

    Sugarpuss you were right that isme is male. Good looking out on your part, especially since not even 92 caught that and it’s her blog.

    No, you’re supposed to say “I’m sorry I treated you like a paranoid crackpot when you mentioned isme’s maleness”. Of course, I’m not asking you to apologize because nobody should ever have to ask for such a thing; that would make it entirely disingenuous. As for isme, he has alluded to his sex on multiple occasions, but it was perfectly obvious to me before the fact. It’s in everything he writes, awkward silence at key moments, etc. Most importantly, I can feel it. When was the last time you allowed yourself to use that power?

    But yeah you do tend to go off and project motives onto people that don’t necessarily exist.

    And here is another ludicrous, generalized accusation. Who is “people”? This sounds like how my calling isme a man (because he is) and Jain a man (whom I suspect is male) was twisted into “You think EVERYONE is a man”. Since when does two people count as “everyone”? Who are all of these people I’m projecting motives on? The fact of the matter is, I trust my feelings and my suspicions, and 95% of the time, I’m correct in my assumptions. I’m not about to start second guessing myself just because you’re, apparently, intimidated by my ability to sense these things.

    That was certainly the case in our discussion regarding Jain.

    Uh, no. It wasn’t. The thing is, this goes beyond the Jain troll. You know I have issues with you for reasons you are well aware of, but refuse to acknowledge. You keep ignoring certain things I say, skimming over my comments, cherry-picking specific things, but ignoring the bigger picture…because you LIVE IN DENIAL. I didn’t dig into you because I’m paranoid or delusional or out of touch with reality or any other load of CRAP you’d like everyone else to believe. I know exactly what I’m doing; I’m calling out a Faux Feminist. It seems you never have anything to contribute here. I never see you talking about how men suck. I never see you talking about how frustrated you are with patriarchal oppression. I can’t remember the last time I saw your opinion on one of 92’s articles. Perhaps I missed it, but what did YOU think about the T-shirts? Don’t you have ANYTHING to say besides “Oh wow! A troll”? That’s what it takes to get you to post here? A fucking woman-hating troll? That’s what motivates you?

    All that stuff about not being mentioned by name because I disapprove of swearing, my loving Phillip Roth, my agreeing with Jain:
    All totally in your head.

    1. I have a strange habit of being suspicious of the motives of people who have a history of supporting un-feminist ideals. If a woman enjoys eating the waffle of a man’s boot, and identifies as a “sub”, it isn’t hard to conclude that said woman upholds & supports traditional “feminine” ideals, and finds less conforming women (eg. Me) offensive.

    2. I have no fucking idea who Phillip Roth is. I said so, and then made a snarky comment about how he probably is somebody you’d like to leg-hump. Obviously, you have some reading comprehension problems, if you took that shit seriously. I don’t know who he is and I don’t fucking care. And I’m not going to even pollute my browser by Googling his name.

    3. As for the Jain situation, actions speak louder than words. And you complimented it’s intelligence (*trying to keep a straight face while typing that*). You seemed awfully impressed. Impressed enough to comment, for sure. As if you felt it had a valid point. I didn’t imagine that.

    But let’s not talk about what’s in my head, let’s talk about what’s in yours. How bout an essay, min. 500 words…topic: Why I Identify As a Feminist. I can hardly wait.

    [...]maybe your energy would be better spent, oh I don’t know, taking on Jain[...]

    What the fuck are you talking about? Why would I do that? Jain’s pitiful twaddle has already been disemboweled by CPB. No further action is necessary. It was a classic hit & run, and Jain appears to be long gone. Besides, I don’t like sloppy seconds.

  60. Yann Cogito January 8, 2013 at 5:43 AM #

    I’m pretty sure I first heard the line “I choked Linda Lovelace” sometime in the 1980s. The end of the 70s saw the publishing of several popular books documenting graffiti, such as those by Nigel Rees and I’ll bet that’s how the line reached my circle of friends in Hertfordshire. Apparently the phrase also appears in the 2001 movie ‘Joe Dirt’, which I’ve never seen. So it seems like Bang On’s design is yer actual authentic fake retro and not something worryingly original.. (o:

  61. sneekybunny January 8, 2013 at 1:42 PM #

    Sugarpuss, first of all I apologize whole heartedly for saying that you think everyone is a man.

    As for the rest of your post, one more time, this is what I said:

    I can’t wait for Hecate and Gracemargaret (not to mention fede and isme and lizor) to engage. They all have such great brains, and it’s going to be illuminating watching them take her on.

    I further explained that I felt this way because :

    All of which means that any debate that may occur between her and say, Gracemargaret, for example will be considerably more interesting than if she were some run of the mill mouth breather.

    Never said anything about cursing, agreeing with Jain, your level of education, liking Phillip Roth (Oh, and again, no need to google him. You can read the same post about him that I did Right. Here. On. This. Blog.) or my sex life.

    Then off you went to the races!

    This is you projecting:

    I can’t help but wonder if it’s an intentional, underhanded, passive-aggressive jab being directed at me, just because I don’t support the whole choicey-choice kinkster mindset. Or maybe you have issues with women who use the word “FUCK”? Could that be it? Could you be one of those annoying people who believes that “smart people” never use profanity?

    And this regarding Phillip Roth:

    But, let me guess, he’s one of the many “progressive” pro-kink stains whose leg you’d love to hump?

    And, since I was not presenting any viewpoint in support of Jain, and thus was not arguing with you, this:

    I’d like to add that you can’t win an argument with me.

    All that was in your head.

    I don’t post often on this blog because, while I am a feminist, it is a Radfem blog and I am not a Radfem. I come to read perspectives that may differ from my own, and learn from them. I don’t feel a need to chime in on the things with which I agree, when there are so many here that can express those thoughts better than I can. I do my fighting of the patriarchy on other blogs, that lack the voices I find here.

    Here, you Sugapuss, may view me as a Tool of the Patriarchy. There, I’m known as a Feminist Killjoy.

    Honestly, I want a tshirt with one title on the front, and the other on the back.

    I don’t need 500 words to explain why I identify as a feminist. I believe in the equality of women, that we are fully human, and deserve to be treated as fully human and all that that entails. It’s that simple. I don’t think that we are very far apart in that, though how we work toward that goal may differ.

    There will always be areas, that as feminists, where we will disagree. You and 92 don’t see eye to eye on the trans issue, for example, and you probably never will. There are some here that have male partners, and some that feel that any form of penetration, even between two women, is an anti feminist act. I, like lizor, find that diversity of thought valuable, and that is why I will continue to frequent this blog, and post when I feel the inclination.

  62. Sugarpuss January 9, 2013 at 5:13 PM #

    @ skeekybunny: At the moment, I am too impatient to read your entire response (it’s one of those days), but I scanned over it and the phrase “Feminist Killjoy” caught my eye. LMAO! WTF?

    *cough* So, right now, I’d like to talk about the fact that I may possess modest chest bumps, but my pubic bone is MASSIVE. I could crack somebody’s head open with that thing. Holy fuck, I guess I’d better stay away from leggings. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!!11!!

  63. Sugarpuss January 9, 2013 at 10:28 PM #

    This may sound strange, but I’ll be turning 40, in a couple of years, and I get really excited just thinking about it. I can hardly wait to start wearing those stretchy, stitched-crease pants, like my aunt used to. Oh, and the floral tops too! It just seems so relaxing. When I transition to crone phase, both my fuckin’ middle fingers will be waving in the wind. :D

  64. Sugarpuss January 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM #

    Alright. I’m full of Fruit Loops, and ready to take this shit on.

    Soooo….what do we have here?….*rubs hands together*

    sneekybunny said:

    Sugarpuss, first of all I apologize whole heartedly for saying that you think everyone is a man.

    I said that I don’t want an apology, because if it has to be asked for, it’s worthless.This should have been the first thing out of your keyboard, after isme confirmed his cock-status. But oooooh noooo…. you ran to apologize to him first! The mere idea that you might have offended a man was unbearable for you. Apparently, it didn’t even cross your mind that you had wrongly accused me of being wrong. What does this male-pleasing behavior say about you?

    Never said anything about cursing, agreeing with Jain, your level of education, liking Phillip Roth[...]

    Agreeing? Not exactly. But you seemed to feel as if Jain’s “you stoopid flat chested wymmin are stoopid…oh and I’m a double D, so nah-nah-nah-nah-nah” argument was worthy of a 5 star rebuttal. In your initial post, you stated:

    “Jane’s gonna stir some shit up in here, and she seems like she’s got the intellectual chops (and the eyebrow raising arrogance) to make 2013 a lot of fun here in comment land”

    I never said you outwardly agreed with her; I said you, obviously, enjoyed the massive dump she took on this blog. Intellectual chops? Har Har! And, I must ask, what could possibly be “fun” about watching Jain disparage other women’s breasts? You find that pleasurable, do you? Well, I’m afraid that puts you in the woman-hater category.

    And, since I was not presenting any viewpoint in support of Jain[...]

    Liar. See above. You support Jain’s misogyny, by having “fun” at at the expense of the “B-cuppers” she was insulting. That’s sick.

    I don’t post often on this blog because, while I am a feminist, it is a Radfem blog and I am not a Radfem.

    Actually, this blog is Radfem Lite™. And, yes, I know what you are…but it’s not a Feminist of any stripe, as far as I’m concerned. That label has been stretched & distorted to serve the patriarchy (the very thing it was supposed to be against) in ways too numerous to list here. But let’s get down to the basics: when you prioritize the needs of males over the needs of females (yourself included), you are no longer a legit Feminist. End of.

    I do my fighting of the patriarchy on other blogs[...]

    If you’re talking about shitholes like Feministing.com, that’s a waste keystrokes. Prepare to be accused of “cis-privillage” when you attempt to discuss, say, symptoms of menopause.

    Here, you Sugapuss, may view me as a Tool of the Patriarchy. There, I’m known as a Feminist Killjoy.

    HAHA! Okay, so now I know what that “Feminist Killjoy” business was about. Well then, I’m certain this yet-to-be-named blog/forum/whatever would view me as Radfem Godzilla, but visiting such places would be a waste of my time. Oh, and I don’t see you as a “tool of the patriarchy”. I think you’re just another lost, confused, brainwashed woman. If I seem angry with you, it’s because I’m tired of women, like yourself, falling for the same song & dance, over and over again. Some people say “Well, the patriarchy makes us this way”. Well, yeah, the influence is powerful and undeniable…but all of us were born and raised in this hellhole…and that includes me, Sugarpuss. Why am I (and a few other select women) different? Why is my freedom (and the freedom of all females) more important to me than momentary creature comforts? Why would I rather die for that freedom than live a life of slavery? Why do so few women share that enthusiasm? Some women think they are choosing the “safe” route. They think that men can be reasoned with and/or changed. LOL Go watch the news. How many women & children have been beaten, raped & killed by male perpetrators, within just the last 24 hours? Does that sound SAFE? Maybe some women simply don’t care because it’s not their fat in the fire? Hmmm, well, whatever the case may be, we’re all doomed because I don’t see minds changing. I see the same shit I always see; Fun-Fems coddling and defending men. Newsflash; the favor will not be returned. Bros before Hos, remember? But what I really want to know is…when will it ever be SISTERS BEFORE SPERM DISPENSERS?

    I don’t need 500 words to explain why I identify as a feminist.

    (*I’m running out of steam over here; that last block of text took a lot out of me)

    Yeah, I figured you’d pass on that essay; it would require a great deal of passion…something you’re sorely lacking.

    I believe in the equality of women, that we are fully human, and deserve to be treated as fully human and all that that entails.

    You believe? LOL Our existence as human beings is a biological fact, not a fucking religion that you try oh-so-hard to put faith in. Oh, and that “equality” business isn’t working out very well, in case you haven’t noticed. Men are jumping on board with their “me too” bullshit, which is just creating yet another imbalance. The result? Women working twice as hard for the same (or worse) results. Unemployed men are sponging off of working women…without doing so much as a shred of housework. Female dominated professions (like nursing) are being flooded by dudes, in the name of “equality”, while male dominated professions continue to slam the door in women’s faces with Total. Fucking. Impunity. This is what Liberal FunFems support, eh? This is equality? Well, fuck that!

    There will always be areas, that as feminists, where we will disagree. You and 92 don’t see eye to eye on the trans issue, for example, and you probably never will. There are some here that have male partners, and some that feel that any form of penetration, even between two women, is an anti feminist act. I, like lizor, find that diversity of thought valuable, and that is why I will continue to frequent this blog, and post when I feel the inclination.

    Don’t even try dragging 92 or Lizor into this. I’m talking to YOU. This is the same shitty trick you pulled the last time we butted heads. Don’t fucking do it. It’s the move of a coward and shit-stirrer.

    I can’t say that I know 92’s views on that dreadful topic, in their entirety. I do know that she agrees that female-only spaces are important (but this blog just isn’t one of them). Besides, as far as I know, she isn’t the one allowing her man to degrade her through physical abuse. She strikes me as the type who would plant her boot up his ass if he even suggested any type of BDSM activities, since, ya know, she’s ANTI-BDSM. I have no idea what Lizor’s personal life looks like. Either way, none of this matters because YOU were the one getting all excited by the presence of a douchehead troll with imaginary “intellectual chops”.

    As for the topic of “diversity of thought”…ummm, yeah, that’s a FAIL. A divided army cannot fight a war. Sure, there can always be disagreements about the small stuff…but allowing the enemy to take control of the wheel is a BIG FUCKING MISTAKE. This isn’t small potatoes; this is asking…BEGGING for the destruction of Feminism. Hell, it’s already one foot in the grave. Radfems are the last hope. Those women that you so fervently deny allegiance to are your last fucking chance at freedom. But hey, if you prefer to huff dong for the rest of your life, and you don’t give a shit about how your actions are affecting other women…by all means, continue on your path of self-destruction.

    Don’t let the door hit you where Mother Nature split you.

  65. Hecate January 10, 2013 at 5:33 PM #

    Yes of course. Women definitely should be relaxed about their looks and what feels good or comfortable to them at any age.

    I just turned 40 myself in December, and don’t understand why so many feel that some sort of ‘crisis’ should be imminent. This is the most relaxed I have felt in my body. I feel a lot more self-possessed for sure.

    It’s important not to let external influences in too much. Should I have felt more joyful at 39 than I have ever felt in my entire life? Probably not, because if most people could have their way, they’d want me miserable. I mean, I had little money at that point, but very rewarding relationships and a real feeling of being at peace with myself.

    I hope women understand that is the real motivation behind most judgmental comments. They want you perpetually dissatisfied with yourself. In fact, when I experienced that joyful period, was precisely when I noticed others clamping down on me and trying their darndest to control me, especially my relatives. There is some perverse rule that a woman is only allowed a certain percentage of happiness, bliss and abundance in her life. I’m glad I’m aware of that now. Suffice it to say, I keep my secret joys as precious treasures all for my little self these days :)

  66. sneekybunny January 10, 2013 at 7:39 PM #

    Projecting again!
    But oooooh noooo…. you ran to apologize to him first!

    What I said was:

    Thank you isme, I stand corrected as to your gender.

    And here again:
    I said you, obviously, enjoyed the massive dump she took on this blog.
    And:
    Liar. See above. You support Jain’s misogyny, by having “fun” at at the expense of the “B-cuppers” she was insulting. That’s sick.

    When what I actually said I looked forward to was, (for the third time):

    I can’t wait for Hecate and Gracemargaret (not to mention fede and isme and lizor) to engage. They all have such great brains, and it’s going to be illuminating watching them take her on.

    Totally excited aboutthem taking her on. Not, as your fevered accusations would have it, the other way around.

    And this right here, since I never said anything what so ever about anyone’s boobs apart from discussing bras, is yet another example of your quite vivid imagination:

    And, I must ask, what could possibly be “fun” about watching Jain disparage other women’s breasts? You find that pleasurable, do you? Well, I’m afraid that puts you in the woman-hater category.

    I am fully aware of 92s position regarding BDSM. I have, after all read this blog. We disagree, and lizor and I disagree on a number of things as well. It is, as I said, that diversity of thought which brings me here. As does your passion which I also admire, your outlandish imaginings regarding me not withstanding.

    You do seem to be laboring under the delusion that you can tell me what to do. A delusion of which I am afraid I must disabuse you.

    I won’t be going anywhere.

  67. Sugar Duck January 10, 2013 at 9:52 PM #

    @Hecate: There you are! Yay for 40!

    @sneekybunny: What. The. Hell was that? I put a great deal of energy into my rebuttal. I expect a hell of a lot more in return than a lousy, lazy, sloppy, two-minute McFeminist response that was probably composed on your hoist-toity iPhone. Face it; I sank your battleship, and you’ve got nothing left to offer but lies & backpedals. I think it’s time to pick up your bunny slippers, and go home.

    PS Wabbit season!

  68. Sugar Duck January 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM #

    *hoity-toity

  69. Sugarpuss January 10, 2013 at 11:08 PM #

    sneekybunny said:

    I won’t be going anywhere.

    Short leash, eh? Not easy being a Dungeon Bunny.

  70. Sugarpuss January 10, 2013 at 11:27 PM #

    This is interesting: http://www.annalsofonlinedating.com/post/35127197655/just-want-to-comment-about-your-interview-on-askmen-and

    It seems men are whining (as usual) about the way in which women choose to reject them on internet dating sites. Completely ignoring them seems to be the major offense, and they are now demanding a “polite” (read: extremely asskiss-y) “No, thanks. I’m not interested”. But, as we all (well, most of us) know, men are fucking liars. The women report a very hostile reaction to this type of response. So, this is basically just one of many male-crafted Catch 22s designed to trap women in a lose/lose scenario.

    Now, I personally know nothing about internet dating, but in RL, the best response to unwanted advances is “Get the FUCK away from me!”, followed by a twitch…or the patented Sugarpuss Stare of Death. ;) Works like a charm, folks!

  71. sneekybunnys January 11, 2013 at 12:20 AM #

    Hecate, truer words were never spoken. It’s sad that our culture encourages that kind of zero sum thinking that pits women against each other. I wish I knew in my 20s what I know now on the cusp of 50. Sooooo much angst and comparing myself to other women and thinking that I would always fall short! Now, much like you, I find myself comfortable in my skin and happy in my relationships and a large part of that, for me at least, is not giving a crap as much as I once did.
    I’ve found that you really can set the tone, and people will fall in line. And if they talk smack about you behind your back, well that’s on them.
    Long story short, I’m really happy that you’re happy. :)

    Sugar Duck (duck is it now?) what the hell that was, was me responding to your post in the manner I felt it warranted. You continue to make wild assumptions and accusations despite my repeated attempts to correct your errors.

    Feminism comes in many stripes and there is room in this world for Radfems like you, and old second wavers such as myself.

    I think you have a great voice. You write well, you’re passionate, you’re funny-you’re one of the reasons I read this blog, but there are, and there always will be things upon which we disagree. And that’s just tough shit Sugar Duck.

    I don’t care that you don’t like what I do in bed, and I don’t care that it bothers you that I post here. You can spit and fuss and call me as many names as you care to. You can insist to the heavens and yourself again and again, that you have vanquished the sneaky bunny, and all hail Sugar Duck!11!!eleventyone!!

    Have the mother of all tl;dr tantrums if you like my dear. And when you’ve worn yourself out?

    I’ll still be a feminist, reading this blog, enjoying the insightful comments of its denizens and posting when I have a mind to. And that, I’m afraid, is that.

  72. Hecate January 11, 2013 at 12:46 AM #

    Thank you Sugar (whichever animal you are these days :D)

    I am around, just moved to down to SoCal and busy looking for work, like everyone, I imagine…

    Hope this finds you all well =)

  73. Hecate January 12, 2013 at 1:00 AM #

    Thank you Sneeky :) Yes, it is definitely good karma to be genuinely happy for others when they are in a good place.

    I am certainly still working very hard at having a quality life. Sadly, it often involves wearing a mask so people cannot stomp all over the things I hold dear and which give me pleasure in life. It would be a better world if we could be more open, as children are. But that isn’t always wise. I sometimes think that though the female desire to care and share is wonderful, it generally ends up being really counterproductive. Kind of like when I was in a self defense class, and unbeknownst to me, I was smiling at the person posing as the aggressor! What a recipe for disaster in similar real life scenarios :D

    It is nice to know the ages of some of the posters here. Now I know why I was sensing common ground, aside from the feminist discussion. We all certainly have some battle scars. Of course that will not prevent me from fighting the good fight, or being so bitter as to be completely discouraged. Rage is all good though. There are times when that is all I have left. And this blog is a good ole righteously rageful work in progress for sure.

  74. Sugarpuss January 13, 2013 at 2:33 PM #

    *throws back a Big Gulp*

    *notes that the offensive party is still dodging, lying and posing*

    sneekybunny said:

    Hecate, truer words were never spoken. It’s sad that our culture encourages that kind of zero sum thinking that pits women against each other. I wish I knew in my 20s what I know now on the cusp of 50. Sooooo much angst and comparing myself to other women and thinking that I would always fall short!

    Wow, no class. No class at all.

    Uh, I believe Hecate was responding to my post, about how I am looking forward to turning 40. You see, unlike you, I’ve NEVER played the game. I’ve NEVER competed with other women for male attention. I’ve NEVER kissed a man’s ass. I’ve NEVER cared about looking fuckable. And I’ve NEVER worn the Feminist medal like a jacket I can take on and off when it becomes uncomfortable or inconvenient. Yes indeed, I’ve known all along…while you spent your 20’s co-towing to the system…and as far as I’m concerned, based on your behavior, nothing has changed. Let’s see…. wearing those creepy Freya bras and allowing a dude to beat your ass for his pleasure, while pretending it’s for your pleasure? Ummmmm….yeeeeah, aint a DAMN THING changed over there. LOL

    Sugar Duck (duck is it now?) what the hell that was, was me responding to your post in the manner I felt it warranted. You continue to make wild assumptions and accusations despite my repeated attempts to correct your errors.

    You felt warranted to lie? And then act like I’m crazy when I quote you word-for-fucking-word? I didn’t “assume” jack-shit; I tried to make you take responsibility for what you said, but you dodged & weaved all the way back to the carrot farm. Oh, and I don’t need “correcting”; you’re the one who can’t get your fucking story straight. The “errors” are all yours, airhead.

    Feminism comes in many stripes and there is room in this world for Radfems like you, and old second wavers such as myself.

    *spits soda everywhere* WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!!!

    Your supreme ignorance is really showing now. First of all, your ideals (and sleazy lifestyle) are 100% THIRD-WAVE. Secondly, I am second-wave (my age is irrelevant), as that was the birth of Radical Feminism. Second wave was defined by RadFems such as Dworkin & Daily, not pro-kink, pro-porn, boot-licking doormats like you.
    Wow, I can’t believe how fucking delusional you are. And I’ve got news for ya honey; that aint a wave you’re riding, mmmkay?

    I’ll still be a feminist[...]

    You are NOT a Feminist. You have never been a Feminist. And you probably will never be a Feminist. Everyone thinks they can just fucking call themselves that, regardless of how far off the tracks their little caboose is straying. Like it or not, you can’t be whatever you want, by just attaching a label to yourself. You have to Live It. Your lifestyle matters, and it’s relevant in determining Feminist cred, sorry. There is absolutely NOTHING Feminist about engaging in, or supporting, the BDSM lifestyle & community. You’re a joke. A very sad, pathetic joke. And maybe I should start feeling sorry for you, instead of getting angry, because you’re obviously braindead beyond all hope…but you don’t even deserve my sympathy. There is a part of you that knows exactly what you’re doing, and that’s reason enough to despise you.

  75. Sugarpuss January 13, 2013 at 2:55 PM #

    sneekybunny said:

    You do seem to be laboring under the delusion that you can tell me what to do. A delusion of which I am afraid I must disabuse you.

    Lulz. There’s more of that stilted speech. Wow, give some jackass an internet connection and a thesaurus, and they magically become a college professor.

    Ch-ch-ch-ch Chia Intellectual! LMAO

  76. sneekybunny January 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM #

    Rock on with your bad Radfem self Sugar Puss. Good for you. I applaud you for your unwavering strength of character in the face of societal pressure that women face. I mean that sincerely.

    I identify as a second waver in the context of Betty Friedan, the ERA, Title IX, MS magazine etc. with an emphasis on reproductive rights. NARAL, that sort of thing. You do like a narrow definition don’t you?

    As I said, I don’t own any Freya bras. I posted that link because it contained, unpadded, no underwire, bras in larger sizes, which, as was being discussed at the time, are difficult to find.
    Your obsession with my imagined lingerie choices, sex life, and gap between our levels of education is amusing.
    But I must say, you are an impressive autodidact. Good for you!

  77. lizor January 16, 2013 at 8:52 AM #

    @ Sneeky/Hecate – I echo your sentiments on aging. When I turned 40, it was amazing how so many people expected me to have some sort of panicked response – the little jokes about irrelevance (in so many words) and so on. I was delighted to turn 40 and in fact felt “fortified” by it somehow, if you’ll pardon the pun. And it is so true, in my experience anyway, how the giving-a-shits about my place in the culture drop away as the years pass.

    Happy belated B-day Hecate. Turn down the volume on those critics, however close they may be and rock your wisdom. You’ve got plenty.

  78. CPB January 17, 2013 at 6:30 AM #

    Appreciate the props, Sugarpuss! I took a page out of your ‘Shut-It-Down’ book for that one. My checklist was basically a male troll ill conceived argument index. Dude-bro JPJ nailed every single one. Imagine that!

    “These bears would only come together and associate with one another for three weeks of every year,and for those three weeks, it is a massive orgy of pure, raw, freaky, furious, aggressive, *perverse gangbanging sex*, not just between mated pairs but whole groups, and competition to ensure that the strongest members of the species will get the best opportunities to pass their genes on to the next generation.”

    Sounds like he was also championing a dude’s right to rape. Right on par with those victim blaming tendencies. Teh smart3st!

  79. Hecate January 17, 2013 at 11:59 PM #

    “fortified!” I love it! Thank you for the wonderful compliment lizor :)

    I will definitely be turning down that volume as often as I can. Between my mother telling me I must have had hot flashes after I was in a cold sweat one night when I actually had the flu, and those who imply that my not being married by now is a terrible failure, I have to ask myself just who is insecure here.

    That’s right! Full-on menopause at 40! And your dating life is over, dahling! Blah blah blah! When in reality I feel the same as you – I feel stronger. Even sometimes predatory towards men occasionally, when I never felt that way as a young lass. Even then, you’ll get called a ‘cougar’ if you express such a sentiment.

    I just have to laugh at it all. There is some truth to this idea that those who grow stronger will be fiercely resented. Ah well – if I eat my critics for dinner, I’ll be a lion! :D No skin off my back…

  80. Rann January 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM #

    JustPlainJain makes the typical argument that we’re just stupid animals and so rape, murder, cheating etc are perfectly okay. I like how men always bring that up. Yeah, I’m sure you won’t mind if I steal all of your stuff then, I was acting on instinct.
    CPB you are awesome.

  81. Sugarpuss January 18, 2013 at 7:02 PM #

    sneekybunny said:

    As I said, I don’t own any Freya bras. I posted that link because it contained, unpadded, no underwire, bras in larger sizes, which, as was being discussed at the time, are difficult to find.

    Oh dear. Please DO try to pay attention. I was in need of a SMALLER SIZED, unpadded bra. 34B, sneeky, 34B. Remember? My lack of rack was the major feature of Jain’s troll, REMEMBER?

  82. Sugarpuss January 18, 2013 at 7:07 PM #

    Lizor said:

    sneeky/Hecate –I echo your sentiments on aging

    What about me? I sentiment-ed first, ya know. I kinda brought up the topic…and stuff.

    Damn, no love for me today. I think I’ll go make dinner, now.

  83. Sugarpuss January 18, 2013 at 7:10 PM #

    CPB said:

    Appreciate the props, Sugarpuss! I took a page out of your ‘Shut-It-Down’ book for that one. My checklist was basically a male troll ill conceived argument index. Dude-bro JPJ nailed every single one. Imagine that!

    I don’t know who you are, but you’re awesome.

  84. sneekybunny January 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM #

    Sigh.

    Sugarpuss,if you will recall, I also provided information regarding your stated needs (less expensive, in your size, less decorated etc)
    This is what i said:

    To that end Warner’s is a brand you might like to check out. They have a line of soft cup, no underwire, fairly simple bras that run around 30$. They wouldn’t work for 92, :( but for a 34B, such as yourself, they might be just what you’re looking for.

    So to recap:

    In a conversation having nothing to do with Jain, indeed before Jain had even made an appearance, I provided on topic, helpful information, without making any disparaging remarks regarding the size of anyone’s breasts.

    I can’t wait for your next fanciful reinterpretation of that discussion!

  85. Sugarpuss January 19, 2013 at 10:38 PM #

    Alright. I’m feeling like a giant, puss-spewing rectal tumor for portraying myself as some sort of perfect Feminist. I am not perfect. I have,/i> done unfeminist things, in the past. What I was trying to say didn’t come out right. What I meant was, I’ve always questioned male supremacy, I’ve never trusted anything with a penis, and I always stood my ground. About 90% of my life choices, in situations where I was able to choose, were RadFem compliant. And most of this was long before I even discovered Dworkin & Radical Feminism.

    Anyhow, what I’m trying to say is that I’ve made mistakes, but not very many and I’m usually right…most of the time. :D Well, something like that.

    I just feel that some things are worse than others;that there are degrees of unfemnist behavior that are more dangerous than others. For instance: my listening to Van Halen (hey 92!) isn’t even in the same ballpark as, say, throwing on some booty shorts and going bar-hopping.

    Sneeky, I regret saying how I “never” did this or that because, while that statement is mostly true, it’s not entirely true. I think. I mean, well, I have high standards for myself so, to me, wearing makeup a few times qualifies as playing the fuckability game, even if that was not my intention. What I’m trying to say is that I’m not perfect, but I think I’m doing better than most. I think I live a life that most women couldn’t imagine living because they have grown so accustomed to being dependent on a man (financially and emotionally). I’ve been celibate for 10 years because I know that laying with a man will bring nothing but misery into my life. I don’t need an STD (there’s no such thing as “safe sex”), surprise pregnancy, the burden of making some idiot’s breakfast because he’s too fucking helpless to do it himself, more household chores, the horrific sounds of The Superbowl echoing through my house, lies, cheating, complaining, etc, etc (physical abuse didn’t make that list because, heh, AS IF :D).

    Okay, what am I trying to say here? I think I’m trying to encourage you (and all women, really) to drop the peen. It just isn’t worth it. Men are very bad for women’s health. HPV, side effects of birth control, etc (it’s a massive list, but I’m too damned tired for that). Anyhow, it’s time to stop being an optimist, and start being a realist. It’s as simple as fact vs. male fiction, really.

  86. Sugarpuss January 19, 2013 at 10:40 PM #

    Oh, for FUCK’s sake. Another tag disaster.

  87. sneekybunny January 20, 2013 at 3:37 PM #

    Sugsrpuss,

    I think you’re better than most too. I think you have an incredible spirit and to live your life the way you do in the face of the crushing pressure of the patriarchy is remarkable. Despite our many disagreements, I have never had anything but admiration for your strength and commitment.

    I’ve always thought of Radfems as the warrior ascetics of feminism, and that kind of life cannot be an easy path. Your voices are uncompromising and unrelenting reminders of what the world could be, and how far we still have to go. That is, as I’ve said, one of the reasons I read this blog.

  88. Sugarpuss January 22, 2013 at 1:01 PM #

    Wow. I really embarrassed myself today. Just color me shameful.

    I recently signed up for a driving course because I never learned to drive. I have a horrid phobia that kicks in every time I get behind the wheel. Well, today was the first day of the learning, training or whatever the hell you would call it… and it was a DISASTER. The instructor is some gravelly-voiced ex-football coach who kept getting upset with me because, in his opinion, I wasn’t hitting the gas hard enough while making a turn. He kept saying shit like “I’m not getting paid to babysit” and “You have to listen to me!”. At risk of ruining my image here, I must confess that I was drove to the brink of tears. And snot. Lots of snot. I just completely broke down under all the stress.

    The icing on the cake was when, on the way home, this assclown had the audacity to turn it all around, as if I was the one being too hard on myself! He was like “You’re going to make mistakes, you know”. UMMMMM. DUUUUUH! It was like total fucking amnesia or something!. So, I was like “Yeah, I KNOW. That’s why you need to stop getting angry at me”. He kept insisting that he wasn’t angry and his voice “just sounds like that” or whatever. Anyhow, as soon as I got home, I fell into bed, in the fetal position, with a box of Kleenex. The entire situation reminded me of things from my childhood; being yelled at by everyone from my mother to my PE coach (I have especially awful memories of that coach; he was like a fucking drill sargent). So, this is just the first day, and I’m an emotional wreck. I don’t know how I’m going to handle tomorrow, or any of the following days.

    Sugarpuss is not so strong, you see.

  89. Sugarpuss January 22, 2013 at 1:04 PM #

    Oh! I almost forgot!

    On the way home, Instructor Assclown said “Can you give me a SMILE, honey?”.

    RAAAAAAAAAWRWWWWWWGRRRRRRRWARRRRRRR!!!!!!

  90. Sugarpuss January 24, 2013 at 6:08 PM #

    Okay, I put Instructor Assclown in his place, today. Now he knows who wears the crazypants. :D

  91. Hecate January 24, 2013 at 10:04 PM #

    Oh Sugarpuss, can I ever relate! For one thing, it’s like I am the butt of all jokes, especially in US culture, for having got my license so late at 39. My main excuse is that I lived in Europe for 16 years of my life, and car culture is really not quite as dominant there. And after all, I have traveled half way across the world with precious little recourse to any automobile, thank you very much.

    I guess I lucked out with my instructor. She was kind of an angel in a sense, as she said her mission was to help women in general learn as much as they can about cars so they don’t have to resort to asking men to fix anything for them. I’ll give her a shout-out. She’s in Portland – Kathy from America’s Driving School. If you are ever anywhere near there, I totally recommend her, even for advanced drivers needing a refresher course.

    Well at any rate, I still have a very pedestrian mentality, which is good for my health. Still going to do those ten mile hikes, etc. Car culture be damned. Sorry your instructor is such a douche. Men do get paternalistic with women when they are the passengers. I am also still a little uneasy behind the wheel. But go figure, once I become better at it, I’ll bet you Google will come out with that self-driving car…

  92. Hecate January 24, 2013 at 10:37 PM #

    And a great quote from ‘Repo Man,’ if you’ve seen it. I love that film:

    “The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.”

  93. sneekybunny January 25, 2013 at 12:12 AM #

    Count me as another late bloomer in the driving department. It took years, and tears, and repeated attempts before I got my license, and even longer before I got my own car. Good for you Sugarpuss for keeping at it even though it’s been such a crappy experience and good for you for telling that instructor where he could stick it. Fuck him for yelling at you.

  94. Mimi January 27, 2013 at 7:35 PM #

    Wow I can relate, I also had a bad driving experience. I remember in august I started my driving classes and my teacher turned out to be a huge asshole!! He was real mean he acted like he owned me!! he looked like those steoreotypical narcissistic “stud” and he thought the whole world loves him. Anyway the first few days were torture he criticzed me a lot and he thinks every woman loves him so he goes on acting like hes all that, then later he pretty much made the commant “women can’t drive” and he said stuff like how since I’m a girl its going to be harder to teach me and said how other teenage guys learned this stuff in days and I’m too stupid to catch on since I’m a girl. This pissed me off a lot I pretty much yelled at the guy and said “I bet you’re a misogynist” and told him to fuck off, of course the guy just laughed and yelled at me back. Then I went home and I felt like crying so I told my parents and I stopped going to him. Horrible experience. This guy pretty much ruined my desire to drive. I got really mad and stopped driving for a couple of months and I just recently started again with a new nice teacher, but it bothers me that theres a lot of guys out there that think like this and just ruin it for others so yeah fuck these guys!! =)

  95. Sugarpuss January 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM #

    @Hecate: I have that pedestrian mentality. too. Although I’m doing well with the driving thing, I still feel uncomfortable the whole time. It just isn’t me. I trust my feet far more than some noisy, stinky hunk of fiberglass. But thanks to so-called “progress” (as defined by men, of course), the ability to skillfully maneuver one of those beasts has pretty much became a necessity. Truthfully, I just wish I was Amish. :D

    @sneekybunny: No worries. He’s kissing my ass, now. But thank you for the concern. :)

    @Mimi: Your situation sounds like it was about 100 times worse than mine. My instructor is an old cock; more pliable. He keeps calling me “honey” and offering to let me use the car for errands and shit. I think he wants IT</b.

  96. Sugarpuss January 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM #

    Oh gawd. I give up.

  97. Hecate January 29, 2013 at 10:46 PM #

    Amish! Lol. Me too. Either that, or to have such fantastic technology, that teleportation would enable females to remove themselves from an undesirable male presence(s) at the speed of light. And why the hell do we not have flying cars by now?! That’s what I want to know.

    Actually, being a bit of a nerd, I did have that teleportation experience – in Second Life. Like many things online, it is dominated by various pervy communities. But at least in that situation, you just click a button and your avatar is outta there.

    Cars truly are ‘beasts.’ They are unwieldy, boxy and just plain eyesores. A shame they don’t have the curves they used to in the old days.

  98. Mimi January 30, 2013 at 7:24 PM #

    Lol old cock but good thing he’s kissing your ass now he should learn his place =)

    and yeah I really hated this guy he’s one of those guys I don’t think I’ll ever forget, when I spoke up he laughs and plays the whole “your nothing but a sex object to me” attitude then he starts yelling and acts like he owns me since he can’t get told off by a girl because it hurts his ego….yeah he was a real asshole.

    It’s like every guy has an issue, I pretty much hate how society is and how men act, sometimes I dream of a perfect society for women lol

  99. Sugarpuss February 1, 2013 at 11:15 AM #

    Hecate said: >blockquote>Actually, being a bit of a nerd, I did have that teleportation experience – in Second Life.

    Ah, Second Life. I have an account, but I haven’t logged in since Christmas. Lotta smut on there.

    Mimi said:

    [...]sometimes I dream of a perfect society for women

    Dreams aren’t enough.

  100. Sugarpuss February 1, 2013 at 11:16 AM #

    FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!111!!!!

    HOW many times am I going to screw up a tag this week???!!!

    • zoebrain February 25, 2013 at 6:44 AM #

      I feel your pain re tags.

      Thanks for reminding me of the male privilege I once had too. I’m sorry you were treated this way in the driving instruction, no-one should be.

      I may have seen the world through female eyes, but I didn’t get treated like this as an adult. It never occurred to me I would – the very essence of privilege,

      You’d know what I’d like? A society where every girl or woman felt that way. Where infantilising us, patronising us just didn’t happen, where it was unthinkable.

      Feel free to answer with insults, if it will make you feel better.. If it’s the only way I can help you feel better, go ahead, you deserve it.

  101. Mimi February 1, 2013 at 10:56 PM #

    Yeah dreams aren’t enough, we need to fight the system, and not give in, but of course at times I get so fed up with it all, most kids at my school don’t think like me, I began to think I was alone on this but I finally started meeting like-minded people. I have to admit when I become desperate I would just wish I could travel into a parallel world where women rule lol, we learned about metaphysics in science today so I been thinking about this, that would be a nice world cause I wouldn’t have to worry about being judged, probably turn the double standards against men and don’t forget lots of hot guys that will serve teehee

    Yeah I think about this too much lol

  102. Sugarpuss February 5, 2013 at 11:47 PM #

    Mimi said:

    [...]probably turn the double standards against men and don’t forget lots of hot guys that will serve teehee

    I like the way you think. :D Yes, they deserve to have all of their shit sandwiches thrown right back at them…and then some. I’d love to see the look on some dude’s face when he’s forced to perform cunnilingus on, say, Betty White. AAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    A lot of men who read my posts are probably dumb enough to think I might be in favor of eliminating their pathetic species. Of course not! Death is far too merciful. I want them to suffer, as every female has suffered, in ways that cannot be easily described. I want them to know what it’s like to live their lives as some thing that was supposedly created for a singular purpose. I want them to know what it’s like to be forced to restrict their body movements, facial expressions, choice of clothing, etc, out of fear that they might not be perceived as “sexy”. I want them to know what it’s like to never even bother perusing their dream career, because they know they have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting their foot in the door, strictly because of what’s between their legs. I want them to know what it’s like to be The Bitch.

  103. Mimi February 6, 2013 at 5:32 PM #

    Exactly!! You read my mind!! Lol, I want them to suffer give them a taste of their medicine!! I haven’t met a single guy that even gets close to understand what a girl goes through, most can’t even admit we have these problems, we should just turn everything against them so they experience and feel what we feel.

    I keep getting ideas on how a womens world would be like. I’m thinking all the movies would be like magic mike lol music videos would be filled with sexy men, only guy on guy porn would exist, men would be sexually objectified while womens beauty will be appreciated, age would only matter for men, polyandry would be legal, looks would only matter for men, guys would have to respect and submit to women all the time, men will take the females last name in marriage, women would have most of the high paying jobs…yeah I could go on lol we should make a team, recruit people, then take over the world then apply our views and turn this into a womens world =P It will be the end of men. I bet if a guy ended up in a womens world and had to go through the shit we deal with most would go crazy, they’re pretty weak and inferior deep down.

  104. Sugarpuss February 7, 2013 at 9:41 AM #

    Mimi said:

    I bet if a guy ended up in a womens world and had to go through the shit we deal with most would go crazy, they’re pretty weak and inferior deep down.

    Oh yes. Currently, despite their extreme level of privilege, they commit suicide way more than women. And it’s over stupid crap like their inability to attract a supermodel. LMFAO! So you can only imagine how those already high suicide rates would skyrocket if they were forced to carry a burden as heavy as Females do. Those soft, spoiled bastards would be dropping like flies!

    Your woman’s world vision is missing one vital element; slut-shaming. I want to see men fearful of admitting to sexual relations. Oh, and scrotal douches! Make ‘em feel nice & dirty. I really dig the emotional abuse aspect; it has a lasting effect that never quite heals, as all women can attest to. It’s time for pricks everywhere to feel that burn. :D

  105. Mimi February 8, 2013 at 9:10 PM #

    Lol wooow men are so pathetic, they love to go around saying how superior they are when really they’re the inferior ones. Their already killing themselfs and they haven’t even experienced anything close to torture.

    Yeah slut shaming men!! by slut shaming them they would get so confused, on one hand we would watch porn with hot guys then after we would slut shame our bfs if they acted that way lmaoo that would fuck them up good, we can put a ton of gender rules on men so we’re free to act like whatever we want but then stop men from doing the same, we can train men to be proper “gentlemen” yet we can be as wild and free as we want, also I was thinking chasity belts for guys, I actually knew this guy that wore one for his gf, we need more guys giving in like that lol we can lock them up whenever we want, and we should have male prostitution place, so we can put a price on men. =D

    Woww this world sounds like funn, now I really want to find a portal to a parallel world or take over this world, I started to read a metaphysics book after this lmaoo

  106. Sugarpuss February 12, 2013 at 1:16 PM #

    LMAO Mimi, you’re adorable and you remind me of me, when I was your age.

    Whatever you do, never lose that part of yourself. Stay strong-willed and try to encourage other girls to see things your way. You’re very important to Feminism. :)

  107. Mimi February 14, 2013 at 5:18 PM #

    Lol Thanks!! and yeah I will stick with my views for sure, it’s so ingrained into me lol. I wish other girls would think like this too though, today was valentines day and all the girls were chasing the guys for attention, I didn’t bother but as usually the guys ego kicked in and decided to have a bit of fun so they purposely started a fight between the girls =/, I got so annoyed I wanted to punch every guy laughing and I wish the girls didn’t listen to them like why are these girls fighting for guys gawwwd. So yeah I tell very few people about my views in school cause most of the girls submit to guys a lot, and all the guys are assholes and enjoy it. I try to convince people but it’s hard, so far I only convinced this one girl but I kept repeating stuff then she finally listened, I guess I sort of brainwashed her lol but whatever she stopped submitting to men and she finally sees whats really going on, she’s a lot smarter with guys, now I wish I could brainwash all of them haha. It’s so hard to find like-minded people at my school, I can’t relate to my friends that well since they give in to guys so much, oh well. btw do you have hotmail or skype,I need more like-minded friends lol if you do my email is sweet_180@hotmail.ca =)

    • Sugarpuss February 14, 2013 at 7:28 PM #

      You really shouldn’t have posted your email. Some sleazeball perv could contact you, claiming to be someone from this blog. If somebody does do that, please come here, before replying to them, and ask if it was one of us, okay?

      • Mimi February 15, 2013 at 1:24 PM #

        Yeah I was thinking about that, but this is my extra email so if something does happen it won’t make a big difference lol I have a lot of random emails, so far I haven’t had any weird messages but I’ll always double check. Anyway email me =)

  108. skeptifem March 12, 2013 at 10:38 AM #

    I’m kinda disappointed that suicide is being treated as a sign of weakness in the comments here. It is a complication of mental illness, a fatal complication.

    For the record, women outnumber men in suicide attempts. Men succeed at killing themselves more often because of the methods they tend to favor (guns specifically).

    • Hecate March 12, 2013 at 1:10 PM #

      It’s a real shame that suicide is still such a taboo topic. I wonder about that. I am also concerned that people who are suffering from chronic, debilitating and painful disease are not allowed the right to die. I like the Wikipedia entry regarding this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_die. We put down animals when they are in misery. Strange we are so against having the same compassion for human beings. The only way to resolve discomfort around these issues is of course to discuss them as openly and frankly as possible.

      • gynodesss March 14, 2013 at 9:50 AM #

        As someone who has attempted suicide and suffers from hypersomia and non verbal learning disability both neurological issues and hypersomia is chronic I am somewhat against this. I think the mental healthcare system fails people so hard but it needs to be built up, I think some groups seen as less worthy of life would be encouraged to die more and not given the help that they need and it is already so scarce, in my province u have to be ‘actively suicidal’ to even be hospitalized! Minorities would be gassed the most I think.

        • Hecate March 14, 2013 at 2:00 PM #

          Well there is definitely that. This is a bit off topic, but genetic testing for example, which you’d think would be a great help in many ways to people, could also easily be used to discriminate against them. And we still have Reagan to thank for cutting all support to mental health programs in this country.

          • gynodesss March 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM #

            I live in Canada and we have an evil dictator codenamed Harper but its still not as bad as the US I dont think. However in my province the tax on retail is 15 percent plus the price of everything is so much higher than the US. Of course Harper lifts tariffs for the corporations but everyday ppl? screw em! I barely have any clothes that fit me and food is so expensive. & spending money on frivolous things? No way, even it happens to not cost an arm and a leg the tax kills it!

            • Hecate March 18, 2013 at 1:27 PM #

              I actually have Canadian citizenship and had been considering moving there for a long time, until Harper happened. But yeah, it seems everywhere it is becoming increasingly difficult for your average person to afford the basics.

  109. Maggie Mae April 21, 2013 at 8:05 AM #

    I just recently stumbled across your blog. Having just come out of an abusive marriage (my second), it’s safe to say that I have issues with how men treat women.

    I admire your brilliance and how perfectly you articulate the confusing rage that women abused by men feel but cannot articulate.

    And your assessment of the porn industry is poetry.

  110. Lindsay May 23, 2013 at 10:35 PM #

    Oh holy mother of god. I adore you. I applaud you. I look forward to reading more of your work

  111. sara June 6, 2013 at 4:40 PM #

    Miss your posts, Nine.

  112. JJ August 3, 2013 at 7:41 PM #

    Great post. Thank you, Nine Deuce.

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