Porn Part 10: The Rutting Dogs of Capitalism

16 Feb

running dog

… a literal translation into English of the Chinese/Korean communist pejorative zǒu gǒu 走狗, meaning lackey or lapdog, an unprincipled person who helps or flatters other, more powerful and often evil people. It is derived from the eagerness with which a dog will respond when called by its owner, even for mere scraps.

Capitalists are not often the root cause of social change. They just aren’t the geniuses capitalist ideology would have us believe they are. More often, they take note of social trends and find ways to latch onto and misdirect social change to their own benefit. Hugh Hefner was a shrewd capitalist. He saw the push coming from women for greater sexual freedom and autonomy, and he also rightly detected (probably because he was afflicted with it) the 1960s trend toward the idea that the only means to expressing one’s “true self” was through consumption. What looks like an ingenious anti-feminist usurpation of women’s liberation ideology in Playboy is really nothing more than Hefner’s realization that the women’s liberation movement had pushed sexuality into the public eye to the extent that he could now sell sex to men along with watches, colognes, and esoteric cigarette brands.

At the moment at which women seemed on the brink of overthrowing patriarchy, Hefner succeeded in turning women into yet another object for men to consume in the pursuit of projecting a fashionable lifestyle and thus — probably accidentally — in driving a wedge between those who could see what was happening and those who didn’t want to that has yet to be dislodged. The story from that point on is a familiar one that leads to the present, when anyone with internet access can find hundreds of pages of rape porn with very little effort.

The cultural journey from half-naked women frolicking in fields to readily-available gang rape porn illustrates a few of the fallacies and problems in capitalist ideology, especially as deployed by defenders of the porn industry. Pornographers claim, as does everyone else who makes a profit selling anything, that they are just meeting a demand (though pornographers doth-protest-a-little-too-much to a greater extent than those who sell products that can’t be shown to be direct causes of rape and human trafficking). Most readers of Playboy in 1969 would likely have been disturbed by the content of a modern mainstream porn clip. For that matter, most viewers of hardcore porn from the early 1990s would be at least mildly alarmed by what is readily available on the internet today. But once something becomes a legitimate target for commodification, all bets are off. Marketers left meeting demand behind nearly a century ago (see the BBC series The Century of the Self) for the more fertile ground of creating it themselves by means of hiring psychological experts to tell them how to manipulate people into believing that they truly needed what was being offered to them for sale. The porn industry is a leader in the psychological manipulation of its customers and makes use of expert advice on addiction psychology and neurological science in order to ensure its continued profits. Scores of studies have shown that long-term porn users find themselves compulsively viewing material that would have upset them had they viewed it months or years earlier, but pornographers disingenuously claim that they are just making what the people want. Horseshit. Some weirdo in Belarus might have decided one day that his ultimate dream was to see a woman get fucked by a dog, but it took the porn industry to create a situation in which every dude over the age of fifteen has seen a video of a woman getting fucked by a dog at least ten times.

Profit is the supreme end of capitalist ideology, and that renders capitalist ideology amoral. There is no realm of human existence that capitalist ideology cannot be applied to, which is one of the soundest arguments against capitalism. That is, if one realizes that there are certain aspects of human existence the application of capitalist ideology to which is immoral. War, health, and sex are the examples that spring to mind first. Capitalist ideology holds that profit is always good, even if extracting a profit from something adulterates or destroys it. The extraction of profit from commodified sexuality has reached a point at which it threatens to destroy sexuality even for those who do not consume its commodified form. (To give one relevant example, extracting profit from commodified sexuality routinely destroys the bodies and minds of those being commodified in the commercial rape industry.*) Pornographers, despite their patently absurd claims to the contrary, do not want you to have a healthy sex life. If you had a healthy sex life, their product would become irrelevant. When porn producers read studies of erectile dysfunction in men under twenty, they rejoice, because it means that they have scored a customer for life who cannot get his sexual needs met without creating demand in an industry that reflects and exacerbates societal misogyny and takes that misogyny out on real women’s bodies. When porn producers read articles about young women who believe that if they don’t embrace their own degradation and physical and emotional discomfort they will be as good as invisible, they shit their pants with glee at the thought of their labor costs decreasing as more and more women flood into the pool of willing performers.

Porn producers are capitalists. They justify commodifying and debasing sexuality to the brink of its destruction on the basis of the capitalist ideology that underlies the entire global power structure. They don’t do it to help the state or the managerial class to control citizens and employees, they do it to make money for themselves. The fact that half of the population is so obsessed with porn that they don’t have any spare time to spend on thinking about the ethical problems inherent in capitalist ideology is nothing but a by-product bonus that the porn industry happens to accidentally contribute to the global capitalist order. Beer companies don’t set out to keep the population mired in drunkenness, hangovers, depression, and alcohol-fueled family dysfunction to prevent them from reaching an emotional and intellectual position from which to confront capitalist ideology, they do so to ensure their own continued profits. That their interests dovetail with those of the managerial class and the world’s governments is a happy coincidence born of the ideology that drives them all. Therein lies the key: within the capitalist world system, everyone in a position of power, whether governmental or financial (the difference between which being diminished to a terminal extent at this point), approaches the task of making decisions from an ideologically capitalistic position. Government officials, when asked to decide whether to regulate the porn industry, don’t opt not to because they believe that the porn industry will keep the population docile by sapping all of its “essence,” they opt not to because they are products of the capitalist world system, the linchpin of which is a capitalist ideology that has assured them since birth that profit is always good.

It is truly bizarre to witness purportedly anti-capitalist or leftist men performing Libertarian mental gymnastics to defend their porn use when it is evident that the porn industry is one of the best examples the radical left could point to as an illustration of the flaws inherent in capitalist theory and practice. But even those who aren’t all that interested in political or economic theory ought to be aware that they’re being manipulated to their own detriment and understand the difference between their own interests and those of corporations for whom nothing matters save profit.

Men should stop using porn because the porn industry rapes, traffics, and kills women. Men should stop using porn because men who use porn make shitty lovers, terrible partners, and are an embarrassment to humanity. Men should stop using porn because men’s porn use makes women’s lives nearly unbearable. Clearly, none of that seems to matter to most men, so how about men stop using porn because it’s bad for men? The porn industry, in seeking to enrich itself, is turning men into sexually dysfunctional robots with no capacity for emotional bonding through the act of sex.

Men, please, have a word with yourselves. The porn industry does not give one fuck about you, and in fact they think you’re just as stupid as they do the women they abuse in the making of their product. They sit around in boardrooms laughing at the thought of you sitting up in your room at four in the morning with your dick in your hand jacking off to images of a bunch of other guys’ dicks doing something to a female human being who is at best incidental. They joke about turning you all gay by directing your sexuality away from women and molding it around other men’s behavior and genitalia. They know their product makes you feel guilty, empty, disgusting, and lonely. But they also know that they can only continue to exist to the extent that you allow them to control and damage your sexuality. Please, for our sake and your own, quit being such a bunch of fucking dupes.

* For those of you new to the site, I call the porn industry the “commercial rape industry” because the women in porn are paid for consent they would not otherwise furnish. If someone has to be paid to consent to something, they have not actually consented to it but have rather agreed not to make their non-consent an issue in exchange for money.

87 Responses to “Porn Part 10: The Rutting Dogs of Capitalism”

  1. Andrew February 16, 2012 at 9:13 PM #

    ND,

    Your posts, even if I sometimes take issue with some of your points, are always extremely well written and a model of clarity. None of this is to say that you shouldn’t still think I’m a terrible person, but I just felt compelled to interject and let you know I think you’ve done an especially great job with these last few posts.

  2. liz February 16, 2012 at 9:16 PM #

    “The porn industry, in seeking to enrich itself, is turning men into sexually dysfunctional robots with no capacity for emotional bonding through the act of sex.”

    Males don’t have sex to bond, they have sex to perform domination and submission. They are binary, material beings. 00110100100. They do not understand the complexities of emotion.

    “They joke about turning you all gay by directing your sexuality away from women and molding it around other men’s behavior and genitalia. They know their product makes you feel guilty, empty, disgusting, and lonely.”

    Guilty, empty, disgusting, and lonely: They feel that way all on their own. And they’ve never cared about females. We’ve always been here for the using. This is because males are akin to a virus. The goal of a virus is to latch onto a host and use the host to make as many replications of itself as possible. When educated about the rapidly deteriorating Y chromosome, this suddenly makes a lot of sense.

    That males are virii also accounts for why we have an overpopulation problem: the function of the male is to replicate. Lots of unsuspecting hosts (females) give in to having children despite the fact that most do not actually want to due to emotional desperation brought about by the male’s primary strategy: divide and conquer.

    This emotional desperation results from lack of close female friendships and connections brought about by the divide and conquer tactic, which causes females to fear each other due to early emotional betrayals at the hands of a female caregiver or female friend living under the oppressive forces of patriarchy. Females under this spell choose to have children because they see no other way to bring meaning to their lives (the lack of encouragement towards engaging and rewarding careers and activities for females also accounts for this).

    Males are becoming gay all on their own, now that we’re faced with a world that is deteriorating rapidly due to the unrelenting demands of what he essentially is– a parasite. A bottomless pit. The fact is, males have been boinking each other in secret for thousands of years, essentially since this whole patriarchy thing started. It’s all a big gay “love” fest anyway, with all the back rubbing and nepotism and verbal fellatio (IE politics). They get off on the secrecy thing. They love it. Just browse Craigslist’s M4M and type in “downlow.” So many secretly gay dudes with girlfriends complaining about how their GFs don’t give good head.

    I don’t know if they’ve gotten tired of lying or if mother nature has worn down their genetic resistance to the point where they don’t have the energy to lie anymore, but more and more of them will continue to be homosexual. This has nothing to do with a boardroom full of porn execs making fools of them. There is a reason the porn industry is the way it is: its consumers (males) are bottomless pits. That’s why they continue to consume ever-more degrading scenarios featuring females at their worst. It’s like an unquenchable hunger. That, and they get bored easily. If you show them a woman getting fucked by a dog, they’ll get tired of that and eventually want to see something more sickening.

  3. liz February 16, 2012 at 9:22 PM #

    Also i should add that the dynamic of the porn industry is such that porn producers enjoy producing ever more degrading scenarios for the male consumer, who enjoys consuming ever more degrading scenarios. And downward it spirals, just like almost everything else the male involves himself with.

  4. isme February 17, 2012 at 4:37 AM #

    “I don’t know if they’ve gotten tired of lying or if mother nature has worn down their genetic resistance to the point where they don’t have the energy to lie anymore, but more and more of them will continue to be homosexual.”

    Homosexuality is a symptom of the decline of the world due to the patriarchy?

    And, how is the patriarchy causing the world to decline? The world (or at least the world of human civilisation) has always been built upon the patriarchy. Men can’t destroy everything they touch because they’ve always had their hands on everything and not everything has been destroyed.

  5. youllnevergetrich February 17, 2012 at 4:56 AM #

    Bravo ND. This post coincides, give or take a few hours, with my trip to Performing Sexuality at the BFI, whose schedule included Carolee Schneemann’s Fuses (1965). Schneemann’s film demolishes all conventions of narrative, pornographic or otherwise, in the service of imagining sexual equality and explicit representations of sexual intimacy at once. It is a representation of a singular encounter, in which acts of sex ‘as such’ form a mere fraction of the action in and around the apartment, and all through a kind of psychedelic filter, using effects of colour, overexposure and texture. I loathe ‘sex positivity’ as a discourse, but this work didn’t seem to be making that argument. But, even in this highly experimental frame, the fleeting images of female nudity the film offered still felt vulnerable to objectification. I guess that’s centuries of misogynistic representation (of which the porn industry is only the most recent and egregious example) for ya.

    http://www.caroleeschneemann.com/fuses.html

    On another note: ‘Liz’, with your remark “I don’t know if they’ve gotten tired of lying or if mother nature has worn down their genetic resistance to the point where they don’t have the energy to lie anymore, but more and more of them will continue to be homosexual”, you offer a double whammy of biological determinism and homophobia. I’m in sympathy with your internalised misogyny argument, and even to an extent with the sci-fi narrative you outline at the beginning of your post, but, in the terms of the feminist position of this blog – ie. that “Radical feminist theory is founded in part on a separation of sex and gender, with “sex” referring to that which identifies the the material body as female or male and “gender” referring to the social roles enforced on the sexed body” (ND’s post on ‘trans’ identities from Jan 2012) – this surely is taking the piss.

  6. 1rudegirl February 17, 2012 at 6:23 AM #

    what an excellent post.

  7. lizor February 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM #

    Does that patronizing void of a post by Andrew really have to stay at the top of the comments? It’s like a bad fart.

  8. lizor February 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM #

    Awesome post BTW, Nine Deuce!!!

  9. Jenna February 17, 2012 at 11:22 AM #

    I kind of like hearing about men who have watched so much porn they can’t reach orgasm without it. Mostly, it’s like “haha ou perv,” but it’s also that maybe teh menz folk will start to realize what you’ve written so well in this post and knock it off with the porn already.

  10. Fede February 17, 2012 at 12:42 PM #

    You write amazingly well, Nine Deuce. Even though I already held the more or less exact same opinion of pornography and for the same reasons, your anti-porn series is still a revelation!

    Also, am I allowed to say ‘Fuck you, Andrew’ on here? Because people like him are like skidmarks in the knickers of humanity.

  11. lizor February 17, 2012 at 2:34 PM #

    ” skidmarks in the knickers of humanity”. Love it!!!!!

  12. Fede February 17, 2012 at 4:23 PM #

    Ha, lizor, I only just realised that the figurative language we each have used goes perfectly together: a bad fart, and the skidmarks. Now, that’s what I call fitting imagery!

  13. Murasaki February 18, 2012 at 1:46 AM #

    When I was a pre-teen my Dad used to called NKOTB – New Skids on the Jock! Andrew hasnt mansplained anything but he’s given his “man” stamp of approval – he was compelled to! Thank the Goddess now ND can sleep at night!

    Anyhoo. Love you 10times over now ND. Your porn series should be on every high school curriculum in the world.

  14. ibleedpurple February 18, 2012 at 2:06 AM #

    They joke about turning you all gay by directing your sexuality away from women and molding it around other men’s behavior and genitalia.

    Totally. They are also saying that they prefer anal sex because it makes women more “virile” in hopes that consumers are too stupid to look up what the word “virile” means. They also openly talk about using “crack whores” in the 1980s when “regular” women were not available for filming. They also called the man responsible for causing the AIDS scare in the porn industry bisexual in hopes that the short stint in gay porn at the beginning of his career would absolve the straight porn industry from guilt (that courtesy from the “porn doctor” who shall not be named).

    I fear, however, that porn users rely so much on porn for getting a quick release that precisely because of this producers & advertisers can speak so openly about strategies and bullshit that would be detrimental to all other businesses. Men just don’t care for the most part. They pay for this with high levels of cognitive dissonance though.

    Liz,

    Males are becoming gay all on their own, now that we’re faced with a world that is deteriorating rapidly due to the unrelenting demands of what he essentially is– a parasite.

    Do I understand you correctly that after having exhausted all other options men must turn to each other in an effort to consume the one resource they have not yet depleted, i.e. themselves? Personally, seeing as status and security are so very important to so many men, I think they would rather not engage in open homosexuality.

  15. lizor February 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM #

    Fede – skids and gas, together at last, thanks to Andrew!

    I agree with Muraski. This porn series should be published, distributed and READ by as many people as possible.

    We are so messed up now. I saw a web project posted on FB today called The Naked Face Project where two women are going 60 days without makeup, or shaving and blogging about it. It’s tragic that this project even exists; that it takes courage to move through the world with your own face and body. Whatever happened to “truth is beauty”??

    I also see that ND twittered about the new PETA pro-rape ad. That organization makes me want to commit violence. So much for “anti-cruelty”.

  16. NC February 18, 2012 at 2:20 PM #

    “They joke about turning you all gay by directing your sexuality away from women and molding it around other men’s behavior and genitalia.”

    You should be careful with this. I do agree there is something to say about the strangeness of pornography made for heterosexual men that focuses so heavily on the size and quality of dicks, but it so easy for this sort of critique to become the sort of attack someone like Rick Santorum or others on the cultural right would use. Whether or not more ‘heterosexual’ men find their sexuality molded around other men’s behavior and genitalia and then realize they’re either bisexual or gay, just doesn’t seem to add anything useful to an attack on pornography for its misogyny.

    • Nine Deuce February 18, 2012 at 4:35 PM #

      I get that, but I’m not the homophobe in that scenario.

  17. Hecate February 18, 2012 at 2:34 PM #

    “Men just don’t care for the most part.” So true, ibleedpurple. It’s precisely why men will never be useful in any campaign for women’s rights. They are very, very comfortable with things just as they are. Why change when you are catered to every second of the day? I wouldn’t. They are rarely scolded for behaving in a sociopathic manner, are told they are gods from the day they are born… I could go on and on. The porn industry is a good metaphor for such outrageous privilege/ entitlement. When someone can sit that comfortably in front of obvious depictions of torture and pain, the corruption is complete.

  18. isme February 18, 2012 at 9:40 PM #

    ““Men just don’t care for the most part.” So true, ibleedpurple. It’s precisely why men will never be useful in any campaign for women’s rights. They are very, very comfortable with things just as they are. Why change when you are catered to every second of the day? I wouldn’t. ”

    Well, IMHO, it’s beyond merely not caring. If they were simply apathetic, things would be much easier to change.

    But the his-terical reaction to any hint of movement towards actual equality…men of all colours and creeds put aside their differences to fight the common enemy of feminism like something out of a Hollywood movie.

    I’ve never managed to understand that mindset, the way so many men can stop whatever they are doing and throw themselves into independantly making the exact same arguments. Is this something society quietly trains men to do without them realising it, or do they understand the issues enough to decide to oppose them? The sort of unity of purpose privileged groups display when they feel their privilege is threatened is extraordinary.

  19. ibleedpurple February 19, 2012 at 10:33 AM #

    Well, IMHO, it’s beyond merely not caring. If they were simply apathetic, things would be much easier to change.

    But the his-terical reaction to any hint of movement towards actual equality…men of all colours and creeds put aside their differences to fight the common enemy of feminism like something out of a Hollywood movie.

    They have massive levels of cognitive dissonance. They know exactly that we are right. However, being so dependent on pornography, often using it to make themselves feel like a “man”, thereby transforming it into a vital part of their identity, attacking/criticizing pornography is basically a vicious personal insult. We are basically taking their masculinity away.

    The recurring talk about freedom of choice is also just one more mechanism to decrease their dissonance level. They change the topic to focus on a belief in personal freedom because living in a liberal society is generally something positive in the context of many Western societies and it makes you feel/look good when you can align yourself with the fight for individual freedom. They also know that regarding women as equals has seeped into the normative make-up of society to such an extent that engaging in behaviour that reduces women to sex objects will automatically force them to take a stance. It’s not terribly en vogue anymore to make obviously demeaning statements about women, at least in RL. Men still feel the need to compartmentalize women, however, so pornography becomes their haven. And we are trying to take it away. We are big meanies.

    When it comes to the state of relations between the sexes in general it is clear that men are men first and human beings second. That is to say: they are men and being a man he must be on top, so women must be at the bottom. When your identity is founded on oppression you will absolutely panic when the slaves revolt. You will construct conspiracy and genocide out of nothing (e.g. Feminist Freemasons infiltrating the governments and constructing men as being victims of androcide when, really, it was just plain old genocide or “normal” wartime action). I wish people would see what phenomenons like MRA are really about: the powerful have lost a little privilege and they react typically hysterical to the promise of more privilege lost in the future.

  20. cub February 19, 2012 at 3:16 PM #

    ibleedpurple,
    feminist freemasons? where do i sign up? the MRA paranoia angle reminds me of a stunt i saw at a big rap show headlined by public enemy: they had an enormous 40-oz. malt liquor bottle onstage, out from which stepped a klansman who “thanked” all the fans for getting effed up on a regular basis and making the klan’s job that much easier– public enemy, the masters of subtlety.

    they did get their point across in a way that was satirical enough to be not truly paranoid, although i don’t know if it made a difference.

    so i guess my point is to look for a great way to capitalize on the fallout from all this/let no crisis go unexploited. what to do? invest in boner pill stock?– too evil to actually do IRL, as it feeds big pharma/animal testing… but we should cook up some kind of evil conspiracy. that way the MRAs can warn men off the evils of porn because women are somehow PROFITING from (eventual boner pill addiction) and using the big bucks to fund a secret cabal of the aforementioned Alberta Pikes.

  21. Ian M February 19, 2012 at 7:28 PM #

    “If someone has to be paid to consent to something, they have not actually consented to it but have rather agreed not to make their non-consent an issue in exchange for money.”

    By this definition, all work is rape.

    • Nine Deuce February 19, 2012 at 7:55 PM #

      How many dicks do you normally have in your orifices at work?

  22. No Sugarcoating February 19, 2012 at 8:40 PM #

    Yeah, Ian, it’s totally like that, except for the part where you’re not raped.

  23. Hecate February 19, 2012 at 9:20 PM #

    No kidding! Not to mention the stress women in prostitution face when johns run off without paying them, or beat them to a pulp. I’m not aware of any office environments plagued with that sort of dynamic…

    Capitalism is brutal, and work is tedious for most. But I’d still put prostitution in the category of slavery over proper work. Women who find themselves involved in it often do it as a last resort, to feed themselves or their children. Unfortunately some also have addictions to feed. But why bash them, when the real pond scum are those who take advantage of their desperation? And it’s not as though johns are gleefully offering to help these women find ‘regular’ work. They’re quite happy to see and use women in prostitution until they are all used up, then on to the next miserable, drug-addled or homeless (or both) young thing(s). And again, Goddess help the mothers who have to resort to it, for whatever reason.

  24. isme February 19, 2012 at 11:50 PM #

    “By this definition, all work is rape.”

    This is not a new argument. Having said that, yes, you’re correct, at least to an extent. There’s probably nothing inherently different about it in theory.

    But sex work in practice tends to be very exploitative, much worse than being stuck flipping burgers or whatever.

    Yes, I am generalising there, and the women I know personally who’ve done sex work didn’t see it as exploitation, but it is still a massive industry with some very shady corners.

    • Nine Deuce February 20, 2012 at 12:15 AM #

      Well, I guess I know the topic of Porn Part 11. Coming Thursday.

  25. lizor February 20, 2012 at 8:13 AM #

    “Well, I guess I know the topic of Porn Part 11. Coming Thursday.”

    Can’t wait! I am so sick of the “all work under capitalism is exploitive so prostitution is just another job” argument.

  26. Purplerage February 20, 2012 at 8:27 AM #

    I have to just say that prostitution is in no way shape or form ”sex work” that’s a liberal prick bullsh*t term to normalize the indefensible. Always, always, always the vile pimps are disappeared from the picture. My mother and every adult woman in my childhood were in prostitution and at the mercy of pimps. I can’t even begin to tell you the profound damage it did to my mother and the other women she knew. Tragically children raised by women in prostitution don’t fair very well either as their mothers often have to dissociate to cope, as well as using drugs of various kinds, both ”legal” and ”illegall” to numb the pain. Female children are often raped by the pimp himself.

    Most of the women in prostitution my mother knew wanted to get out and get away from their pimps (both male and tragically female too) who mercilessly beat and mentally abused them in general – pimps lay the ground work as absolute abusers preparing the way for the johns to take full advantage of the young women who are ”broken in” and ”broken down” by these vicious pricks. ”Sex work” indeed! Might as well call slavery ”life long employment” whom does it serve to use euphemisms? This is the horrendous reality for the majority of young women in prostitution. Why should outliers be used to disappear this? Again, whom does it serve?

    Some of the most heinous crimes patriarchists have committed against large parts of humanity are often normalized and mainstreamed and made part of the economy. A whole vocabulary is created to neutralize their crimes and disappear the violence and atrocity necessary to keep things running smoothly for those who profit and benefit from that state of atrocity.

    Pimps are just like the men who ”broke in” the captured and enslaved African and Eastern European peoples to make them malleable for the rich white Western European men who wished to purchase them. Only with prostitution, even the men lowest down the rungs of the patriarchal heirarchical ladder get to feed off the use and abuse of young women and girls. ”Woman gave birth to man and he sold her at the marketplace… ”.

  27. Hecate February 20, 2012 at 2:35 PM #

    Sorry to hear your story, Purplerage. Perhaps if men would stop trying to control others, they’d finally become more interesting and evolved themselves.

  28. Fede February 20, 2012 at 3:33 PM #

    Ian, are you a prostitute? And if not, why the hell would you choose to do anything else, when hiring our your ass to men who would pay for the privilege of treating you like fuckable filth is just the same as any other kind of work and most likely pays better?

  29. liz February 20, 2012 at 4:52 PM #

    ibleedpurple
    “Do I understand you correctly that after having exhausted all other options men must turn to each other in an effort to consume the one resource they have not yet depleted, i.e. themselves? Personally, seeing as status and security are so very important to so many men, I think they would rather not engage in open homosexuality.”

    You are right, many of them do not engage in open homosexuality. They haven’t depleted all the “resources” yet, there are still plenty of places around the globe where males repeatedly rape females. But what is changing is that single female headed households (where a large number of children are now born) lack the heterosexual policeman known as the father. Without the father’s “guidance,” male children are allowed to explore their true nature, that is, feminine nature, and with that we have increasing numbers of males who shun the constraints of heterosexuality altogether and adopt a homosexual lifestyle that is more comfortable: for them (because they can more equally fulfill their sexual needs) and for females (because the whole “2 kids/picket fence/housemaker/fuckdoll” thing is getting oooold).

    This is a relief to all concerned because what is heterosexuality but a series of lies and defenses anyway?

    {Males, being viruses, have one objective and that is to replicate. If they do not achieve their objective they see their lives as meaningless. Females are brainwashed early in life and throughout their lives (makeup, clothing, money, romance movies, magazines, movies in general, media in general) to cooperate with the male mission to replicate, which is why we’re seeing people having kids even on the brink of global ecosystem collapse. But females do not have kids for the reasons males do, they do it for money (security) or to fill an emotional void left by early wounding resulting from female relationship dynamics set in action by the creation of the male system.}

    I should modify this to say that heterosexual males are viruses. Once a man has renounced sex with females, he is harmless and reverts to being merely flesh.

  30. isme February 21, 2012 at 3:09 AM #

    “This is the horrendous reality for the majority of young women in prostitution. Why should outliers be used to disappear this?”

    Not that I’m saying I disagree with this, but are the outliers statistical anomalies, or do they tend to come from a nation/culture that deals with the issue differently?

    I’m led to believe (though I’ve not directly experienced it myself, I can’t claim to understand it particularly well) that women in prostitution can only be abused by pimps if society wants them to be. In societies that don’t view them as less than any other woman (well, not all that much less is probably more accurate), this can’t occur to the same extent.

    Which would tend to most outliers irrelevant to this issue, as their experiences aren’t compatible.

  31. Aileen Wuornos February 21, 2012 at 7:36 AM #

    I too am sick of the ‘…but all work is exploitative!’ pseudo-argument. Also, Ian, fuck you, I’m willing to bet bottom dollar you’re not a rape survivor so take your comparison to rape and stick it. I sure am fucking sick of men saying anything about rape, especially as a survivor.

  32. Aileen Wuornos February 21, 2012 at 7:37 AM #

    Sorry for the double-comment but this is another fantastic post from you Nine, the comments are fantastic also.

  33. MissFit February 21, 2012 at 10:30 AM #

    Hi here!

    I discovered your blog recently and I can’t stop reading it. I love it! I would like you and everyone who regularly comment here to be my friend! I am deadly sick of this porno world. Prostitution is now even considered as a job just like any other, that is how sick our view of women’s bodies and sexuality have become. For your info, I used to be an escort (that was 10 years ago). I was not trafficked or coerced, I used to think that it was just a job like any other. You know what made me do it? I was tired of sexually pleasing my boyfriends, in the name of ‘love’ (or whatever passes for it) that I thought that I should at least get paid for sexually serving men. So, I did it as a general statement against ‘love’, as another way to harm myself (do I need to tell you that I had real self-esteem issues? and do I also need to tell you that these self-esteem issues came mainly from the way society teaches women that their value lies in their fuckability?) and as I did not know what to do with my life then, I just thought about making as much money as possible and then traveled to Europe and kill myself somewhere along the route….

    I did feel superior to other women though, because at least I was getting money out of sexually pleasing men (is that what is called ‘empowerement’?). Well let me tell you that prostitution, for me, has been physically and psychologically devastating. As long as you do not think about what you’re doing or ignore it altogether (I am talking about the physical pain felt in your vagina being roughly penetrated by 6-8 different men a day, your breast being pressed, your throath being suffocated, and thank goddess I never did anal… and the psychological pain of always faking your emotions…), you can do fine but when you get to analyse what you’re actually doing and the implications, the sexual politics, and all that, it hits you! Oh, and did I have to tell you that I was addicted to pills and alcohol?

    Yes, my view of sexuality has been fucked up by patriarchy! I took pride in giving deepthroathed blowjobs, even felt kind of superior because of it (again, is that ‘empowerement’?) but still waiting to feel the satisfaction of a man giving himself to me, to my pleasure… Am I just unlucky so I never had the chance to find a good lover/sex-partner? There should be a way for sex to be enjoyable. I know I can love sex, I am easily turned on and horny, but why this feeling always leave me unsatisfied and frustated after the so-called ‘sex’?

    I decided that there must be a third way to live your sexuality than to be used by ‘boyfriends’ for love/attention or ‘johns’ for money. I stopped taking pills and diminished my alcohol consumption and I stopped having sex for awhile. I met a guy at work (I now work in an office), we became friendly, laughed a lot together, had interesting intellectual conversations… We were in ‘love’. We recently bought a house and now have a daughter… The sex was never that great (I got into my old pattern of doing anything to please him without reclaiming the same…) and I just discovered that he is a porn addict… I saw in his computer history (I had my doubts so I went looking)… all the sites visited (and he goes to these sites everyday)… videos with titles such as ‘teen slut taking it in all her holes finished covered in cum’ and the sorts… you know what I am talking about… everybody knows for goddess’ sake! Even my own mother, the only thing she could tell me was that a lot of men do that… My boyfriend does not know about my past, and I do not know a lot of things about his sexual past neither (I did not ask as I did not want to talk about my own…). This makes me feel sick to my stomach!

    There are a lot of online discussions from women finding their husband/boyfriend is into porn, they are not feminist sites, just forums where people discuss, and a lot of women feel depressed about that; they feel betrayed, inadequate, ugly and unloved. How can a majority of women be wrong? And now, they feel confused about their feelings because society tells them that they should be okay with it, but the fact is that they are not. We are not. Who is listening to us? Society does not care about so many of its women?

    As for me, I am very depressed now… I am stuck with a house and a baby and a boyfriend that I do not respect anymore… And as a lot of women do, I turn my hatred of him and of society unto myself… I realised he never looked at me the way I looked at him; how could he? I feel frustated; I know I should have known better then getting involved with a man… I am on maternity leave and the only thing that keeps me from losing it is blogs like yours (and thanks for that!), at least I know I am not alone who’ve had enough with the patriarchy and its invasive porn culture.

    Is there a feminist island where me and my daughter could go live on?????

    p.s. sorry for the long post, I really needed to express myself, thank you for the inspiration and the opportunity!!!

  34. No Sugarcoating February 21, 2012 at 3:27 PM #

    MissFit, your story was depressing just to hear, but I hope you never give up! There are lots of women who are on your side, even though they are afraid to speak up.

  35. Fede February 21, 2012 at 6:44 PM #

    Dear god, MissFit, that is simply terrible. I had a boyfriend like that and dumped him. I do know it becomes much harder when there is a kid in the picture. Still, and even though I don’t know much about your life except what you have just shared here, I will actually guarantee that you will be much happier on your own. So if it is at all possible for you, I hope you find the courage, energy and opportunity to break up with your boyfriend.
    Like Sugarcoating said, don’t give up!

  36. RadFemPornBasher February 21, 2012 at 8:14 PM #

    @Ian-

    No it isn’t. I’ve been in the position of having a severe chronic illness and yet was perfectly able to see the difference between flipping burgers and being prostituted. Sure, it sucked big time to wait on others, take notes for them, all while very physically ill and I can promise you I’d still rather go back to all of those jobs than to actually have to suck for pay.

    Are your bodies (men) and souls so utterly lacking in meaning that you can’t tell the difference between even shoveling shit and allowing another person to insert something into you, alone with them and they being able to physically overpower you at any time, for a few bucks?

    I’d rather shovel the shit than be the shit. Can you really not tell the difference between- oh, anything- and being alone with a human being who cares nothing for you beyond their momentary pleasure, whatever that may be?

    Really?

  37. joy February 22, 2012 at 12:27 PM #

    It really is okay to “give up” on men. On men as lovers, on men as companions … Because they are dismal at it. If ‘male sexuality’ really is “just like that” (ie, pinned tightly to violence and degradation and domination), then we can do better without them. (If we need sexual pleasure, we all probably have at least one functioning hand, if nothing else.)

    We can give up on men. We can just never give up on ourselves, and other women.

  38. liz February 22, 2012 at 2:10 PM #

    Miss Fit: Males’ domination of everything around us depends on our silence. Reading stories like yours is a breath of fresh air! I literally exhaled upon ending. It takes a load off each and every time we share our pain. To keep it all bottled up is too hard to bear. And it makes us more vulnerable to falling into the arms of our oppressors: males.

    http://writingvagrant.tumblr.com/post/18081911002/today-on-the-bus

  39. EmilyBites February 22, 2012 at 6:03 PM #

    MissFit, I’m sorry about your situation. I don’t have kids, and of course don’t know all your circumstances, but I hope you can leave him if you want to, for your own sake. Being with a porn user is real psychological torture – my ex didn’t use it, but he took satisfaction in telling me he didn’t think there was anything wrong with it, and it really hurt.

    He also loved to bring up the burger-flipping analogy. Yeah it sucks to work in McDonalds. Try doing it with a dick up your ass. Different.

  40. Nine Deuce February 23, 2012 at 2:06 AM #

    A comment from some dude from Fairfield, Iowa, reproduced here for your amusement:

    This post / comment thread could use a little male perspective. But, hey, given the title of the blog, I’m guessing that doesn’t show up here too often.

    First of all: To all the angry women spewing crap about “if only men would change, the world would be a better place”: Get a grip. Look at what you’re saying. If you assume all men are evil / stupid / out-of-control don’t be surprised when the men you know decide to live up to those expectations.

    For those of you who want to know what I’m talking about:

    “Males, being viruses, have one objective and that is to replicate. If they do not achieve their objective they see their lives as meaningless.”

    “Perhaps if men would stop trying to control others, they’d finally become more interesting and evolved themselves.”

    “When it comes to the state of relations between the sexes in general it is clear that men are men first and human beings second.” (actually, most of this post by ibleedpurple)

    “They are rarely scolded for behaving in a sociopathic manner, are told they are gods from the day they are born”

    “Males don’t have sex to bond, they have sex to perform domination and submission. They are binary, material beings. 00110100100. They do not understand the complexities of emotion. ” WTF?

    “This is because males are akin to a virus.”

    and from the actual blog post:

    “The fact that half of the population is so obsessed with porn that they don’t have any spare time to spend on thinking about the ethical problems inherent in capitalist ideology”

    “Clearly, none of that seems to matter to most men, so how about men stop using porn because it’s bad for men? The porn industry, in seeking to enrich itself, is turning men into sexually dysfunctional robots with no capacity for emotional bonding through the act of sex.”

    If you think no men are not concerned about capitalism or their own porn habits, your view is very, very skewed. Possibly, it’s because you spend too much time writing hate-filled rants to actually pay attention to what the men around you actually think. Hell, half the reason I’m writing this is to poke the hornets nest.

    I’m tempted to respond to all this simply by posting this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo … but that would be obnoxious. Oops. Feel free to write me off as another MAN and keep complaining.

    Here’s some ammunition: I’m a man. I have a porn habit. I don’t doubt that some of the porn I watch would have horrified / scared the shit out of me when I was younger. I’ve become acclimatized. Oh well. Life goes on.

    I get the feeling a lot of you here dislike and/or fear male sexuality. I don’t entirely blame you. Imagine what it’s like to actually have that sexuality as a part of you.

    First, let me get this out of the way: I don’t disagree that sex and capitalism are a bad combination, but it’s a red herring as far as male porn habits are concerned. If, somehow, the porn industry didn’t exist, us men would still be passing around pictures of naked women being fucked in degrading but oh-so-sexually tantalizing ways. The economics around it would look different, but it would still be there. We’d probably have something like “The Pirate Bay” of porn (come to think of it, that actually exists) where homemade porn gets swapped.

    The problem is not capitalism. The problem (such as it is) is a combination of widely available, cheap cameras, and a free means of instant, global distribution (the internet). As long as those two things exist, men will have the means to masturbate to increasingly filthy, readily available pornography. Our sex drive is more than enough motivation to build these things without the added monetary incentives that captialism provides.

    One would assume that it becomes somewhat harder to convince women to be complicit in the worst of it, (I’m sympathetic to the idea that money makes exploitation easier), but money is far from the only way to exploit a women. As MissFit pointed out, “You know what made me do it? I was tired of sexually pleasing my boyfriends, in the name of ‘love’”. Yes, there was money involved as well, but the money was a symptom, not the cause. As long as there are women who derive personal validation from sex, there will be men who exploit those women. Exploitation is part of the sexual dynamic. It’s not a healthy part of it, but it’s there, and has been there since the dawn of man. Eliminating capitalism from the mix isn’t going to change that.

    So, with that out of the way, why do I continue to beat off to images that I *know* are exploitative? What makes me download images of women whose souls cry out to me if I look into their eyes? Simple answer: I’m horny. Satisfied? Didn’t think so. Me neither, but at least I’m no longer horny when I finish. It’s an itch, and I scratch it.

    Contrary to what some of you seem to imply, my life and my sexuality do not revolve around porn. You know what’s a hell of a lot more satisfying than fucking my fist? Sex with an actual woman with actual emotional intimacy. That’s a hell of a lot more work though, and in the meantime… I’m horny.

    I don’t doubt that there are men out there who get trapped in porn, just like there are women out there who get trapped in prostitution. Both are signs of emotional insecurity. But, that’s not most men, and that’s not most women. Building a satisfying sexual relationship is HARD WORK.

    My point is this: Men are not going to stop using porn because you think they shouldn’t. They are not going to stop because it’s wrong. They are not going to stop because it hurts women. They are not going to stop because it hurts themselves. They are going to stop when they are no longer horny. I was obnoxious when I posted The Internet is for Porn earlier, but there was an underlying point: Male horniness is inevitable, and porn consumption is an expression of that.

    Take porn out of the equation, and you’re still going to have a whole bunch of horny men on your hands. Some of those men may direct that energy into a positive relationship, but chances are the insecure men are still going to be insecure men. And those insecure men are going to express their sexuality in a way that makes them feel secure – by exploiting any women who get close enough.

    I’ve seen statistics that suggest that the incidence of rape has fallen inversely with the popularity of porn. I haven’t looked closely, but I find that plausible. Of course, if you see porn as rape, it comes out a wash – there’s still women being exploited no matter how you look at it. But exploitation in porn has one or two major advantages depending on what you see as an advantage:

    1. Women in porn do have more control over their destinies than women who are “traditionally” raped. Yes, there is a sense in which accepting money negates consent, but unlike “regular” rape victims, their sexual exploitation is not forced. Women in porn *do* have some control over the time and place of their exploitation. That gives them some ability to mitigate the emotional consequences, and, at the end of the day, it gives them money as well. That’s not to say that we should approve of it, but comparing all porn prostitution to rape cheapens the horror of actual forced rape.

    2. One women exploited in porn can service the sexual needs of an unlimited amount of men. That’s a callous, economic way of looking at exploitation, but en route to eliminating sexual exploitation altogether, we should at least consider the possibility that permitting porn to exist may prevent a greater amount of sexual exploitation elsewhere.

    Ultimately, if you want to address the problem of exploitation, you need to look deeper than eliminating porn, because the root cause — insecurity in both men and women — is there no matter what the pornographers or the capitalists are doing. The porn industry can’t make you feel insecure unless you already are. Their marketing may rub salt in the wound, but it doesn’t cause the wound in the first place.

  41. Nine Deuce February 23, 2012 at 2:08 AM #

    If anyone has seen a funnier mansplaination, I’d like to see it. Consider this a challenge.

    • Silent Agony (@DiscordantFlesh) February 22, 2013 at 12:33 PM #

      Challenge accepted: Okay so haii I ish a male porn user and I HAZ A PENIS! I WATCHES PORN AND I HAZ A PENIS! I IS NO GAY AND IS FEELING LIKE YALL ARE DISRESPECTING MA RITE TO HAZ PENIS FUN EVERYDAYS AND IT MAKEME SO SAD CUZ WIMMINS R SOOO DUMB THEY DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND MRA AND THEY SHOULD BECAUSE BEIN FE-MALE STANDS FOR 4 MALES. FOR MAILZ PLEASURE AND U NO DEM SEX WORKERS GETS OFF ON IT I SWEAR DAT I SAW IT IN A REEL LIFE PORN SO IT HAZ TO BE TRU AND I IS FEELS THREATENED U WANTS TO BE FEEL GOOD IN BED CUZ REALLY LOOK AT THE PRN*S THEY AINT COMPLAINING THEY SIT THERE AND DEY TAKE DA CUM LIKE A WIMMIN! U GET ME? I IS GOOGLED RRSHERCHED “FEMINISM IS HATE SPEECH” AND I HAZ TO BELEEVE SINCE DA WRITERS HAZ DICKS DAY DER STUFF IS MORE CREDIBLE DEN WOMENS OWN EXPERIENCES. Do you ish know what ish exploiting when u says my dick is bad little rape worm and dat porn feeds him grow big..ooo big dicks fap dap dap fap

      (every male rites “activist” evar)

  42. CPB February 23, 2012 at 5:40 AM #

    @Fairfield, Iowa

    Christ, I could only get through half of that long winded diatribe before I almost nodded off. Rationalize, rationalize, rationalize….it will never quell the fact that you perpetuate the exploitation. ‘Men are horny and sexual exploitation has been around since the dawn of time therefore there ain’t nuttin’ we can do, so why even try’? Are you fucking serious?

  43. Fede February 23, 2012 at 10:12 AM #

    Mr Male Perspective! That’s all we need! Because feminists have never considered the male perspective before.

    How about this: it is not ok to exploit women in porn OR ANYWHERE ELSE. You are actually defending porn, which is in itself exploitation, as a way to avoid exploitation elsewhere? Only in a male ‘mind’ does that count as logic. Fuck you, you filthy fucking cuntless bastard.

    • Sugarpuss February 22, 2013 at 3:37 PM #

      Fuck you, you filthy fucking cuntless bastard.

      HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!! *kneeslap*

  44. Hecate February 23, 2012 at 10:56 AM #

    I think our Iowan friend should have his own porn site called ‘way to exploit a women,’ thus confirming that there is also a link between porn use and illiteracy :D

  45. Hecate February 23, 2012 at 12:05 PM #

    Oh and have a wonderful trip, ND ;)

  46. mechantechatonne February 23, 2012 at 12:55 PM #

    I came down with an acute case of “tl;dr” about halfway through. And really, I was reading it with my mouth hanging open because I JUST dumped a nigel yesterday over that kind of thing. He said almost exactly the same words. I was explaining to him why he shouldn’t watch porn. He just flat out told me “I watch it because I’m horny. And really, I don’t give a shit about anyone that’s in it. I don’t even really care that it’s making me addicted to it. I just want to get off, and don’t know what you think I SHOULD do if I get horny.”

    I don’t know, get the fuck over it because this entitlement to be pleased sexually by people that are disinterested in you exists only in your male-privilege poisoned brain? Read a book? Take up scrapbooking? Go lift weights? Masturbate under the power of your own imagination?

    I let that ride for a day, kind of deciding to sort of pretend I didn’t know that or something. And then he told me that he and his friends hang out and think of nasty shit to do to kittens. I was like ! And he said, “what? It’s not like I’d actually DO anything to a kitten, but I can’t help my thoughts.” I was on a one way ticket to Fuck-it Town from that point. And the more I thought about it, the more obvious it was to me that I don’t want to try to find a man that isn’t interested in porn or kitten torture or zombie apocalypses or whatever other gross shit they always seem to be so attached to you’re lucky if you can pull them away from the computer to PIV you during loading screens. I want to be fucking done with them. And literally I instantly felt better than I had in years when I made that call.

    And no, creepy nigel, you can’t watch me with my girlfriend. In fact, if you even tell me you masturbate about it I will set you on fire. You know, how you want to do with kittens.

  47. joy February 23, 2012 at 1:10 PM #

    Chatonne, I just found your blog today and I love every thing about it so far. (I’m to your Self-Identification posts right now.) And I’m really picky about what I read. So there’s that. Also, your ex-Nigel sounds terrible. Kittens are the absolute best.

    Also, Fairfield Iowa has evidently not realized a few things.

    1. Capitalism is what breeds most insecurity in people. That is what capitalism is designed to do — make people feel insecure, so they will buy things (or go to work at jobs they hate, etc) in a desperate attempt to feel less insecure. So the claim that porn is derived from insecurity does not mean it is not derived from capitalism; in fact, it’s essentially the same statement.

    2. Cheap cameras are also a result of capitalism. As this is self-evident, I will just resort to a word association about the whole thing — Supply, demand, undercutting, overabundance, “developing-world” factory hells, insecurity, manufactured desire that leads back to a greater demand.

    Has this dude ever read anything, ever? Seriously, I’m self-educated and I can figure this shit out pretty readily. It’s glaringly obvious to anyone who doesn’t have their head shoved firmly up their own anus.

  48. Hecate February 23, 2012 at 1:22 PM #

    That was a fantastic finale, mechantechatonne :) We need women to say things like that more often. Something I often say is “I’m so tired of bleeding for this miserable world.” That will give men a new perspective on the menstrual cycle ;)

    “…this entitlement to be pleased sexually by people that are disinterested in you…”

    That is so true of men. In fact, it goes a long way towards explaining why men act out so violently when rejected. There is at least one news story every other night regarding the violent outburst of some jilted male. You do get your very occasional story about female stalkers, but it does seem to be mostly men who feel so entitled, doggedly pursuing the disinterested.

  49. mechantechatonne February 23, 2012 at 2:23 PM #

    Thanks, Joy! What caused me to create a blog in the first place was I was reading liberal feminist blogs and going “BULLSHIT! THE LIES!” and decided to get my own damn blog and quit getting modded and banned all the time freaking out on theirs. Any feminist blog that prohibits saying “for the most part dudes fucking suck. That’s actually why feminism exists. Because if dudes were awesome then they wouldn’t oppress us” is a blog that is going to eventually drive me up a wall. And yeah, Captialism is such bullshit. It takes an impressive lack of foresight to think that there is nothing obviously wrong with creating a society dominated by endless amoral consumption. That doesn’t even sound like a good idea if you don’t think too much about it.

    Thanks Hecate. It took some time for me to follow the breadcrumbs from “men can’t tell if you’re interested or not,” to “men know you’re disinterested and don’t care” to “men know you’re disinterested and that actually IS the fun part.”

  50. candle February 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM #

    ND, I just found your site and this article today and it just makes me sad. And angry. And like I need douse myself on fire and light a match. Maybe it’s because you write too well or because your commenters rock too hard, but fuck.

    Let me explain. I’m a guy and I hate porn. Hate it, hate the whole loathsome industry, hate its offshoots like the strip clubs, hate the devastation it has wrought on society and the assholes that populate my own gender. But never being into porn (let alone the dog-fucking porn, I mean seriously??? You can’t be serious???) doesn’t exactly give me a pass does it? I read stories like the ones in comments and the “Today on the bus” post from earlier, not to mention the male-related horror stories from people IRL, and I just don’t know. How do I justify living as some unfortunate woman’s future nigel? As a virus?

    I can’t even talk to other guys these days. One minute you can be sitting there talking about Jeremy Lin or some such bullshit and the next minute some asshole whom you thought was normal a minute ago is bringing up some seriously disturbed shit he saw on his latest porno, and all the other guys are into it, and it’s like ??WTF???? And don’t even get me started on the mansplainers like Andrew or Ian or Fairfield, Iowa here who see absolutely nothing wrong with rape culture because, fuck, it’s not like it bothers THEM, right? As far as their mothers and wives and sisters are concerned, well, fuck them! They are “others” and so they don’t count! I bet Andrew and Ian are card-carrying leftists so, to hell with women as long as they make fun of Romney! Maybe they can guest-host for Bill Maher.

    And because rape culture means nothing to them, they don’t have to fear parking garages. Or being on the subway car late at night with one other strange male. Or judged solely on their fuckability by their pretend “friends,” by their employers, by their professors, by the media, by corporations. Or even other fucking leftist protesters at OWS.

    I could go on but then I’d have to start looking for gasoline and matches. Sorry for the long-winded rant by just another bullshit male, one bullshit rationalization away from justifying his own existence. Again.

    p.s. Have fun on your trip, ND.

  51. Hecate February 23, 2012 at 3:24 PM #

    It’s nice to know there are some men out there who understand the all-encompassing nature of sexist behavior, candle :) Empathy is key, and is really all women are asking for, in most cases.

  52. FemmeForever February 23, 2012 at 5:00 PM #

    @Chatonne

    I love your story about blogging (considering it for exactly the same reasons) and about your life. But I’m curious. Can you elaborate on girlfriends vs celibacy?

  53. FemmeForever February 23, 2012 at 5:06 PM #

    Never mind. I just clicked through to the blog.

  54. MissFit February 23, 2012 at 6:17 PM #

    ‘Males’ domination of everything around us depends on our silence.’

    You’re absolutely ritgh Liz. Women have to speak up against those who are trying to manipulate, invalidate, silence our voices/thoughts/emotions. We too often feel alone (another patriarchy’s victory) while we are the majority. This will have to stop at one point because women won’t be able to tolerate such misery forever. We rebelled before and we will rebel again.

    I hear guys saying that women have to accept their porn use because porn will never go and they will not stop. Mr. Fairfield said it: no matter how wrong it is and how it hurts women they won’t stop because they’re horny!!! Wow! For that matter, anything (assault, theft, rape, murder, slavery) can be justified by someone’s emotions or desires (no matter how fucked up those emotions and desires are). Being horny is no more an excuse. People have been horny forever. Men were able to live without seing women being fucked in every holes every fucking day, and they did not all turn out to be a bunch of insatiable rapists. I thought our goal, as humans, was to aspire to higher things than total amorality (yes, as in morality, as in there are things that are just wrong and harmful, no matter how hard you try in making look them ok). We live in a society, we should look out for the welfare of our fellow humans (of course, considering women less than human makes it easier to abuse them…).

    Here is another option beside accepting whatever guys do and that is to dump guys altogether! Guys still engage in long-term relationship with women because they still need emotional connections (that is until they all become braindead after all the time spent in front of their screen looking at more and more degraging stuff…). Too often, they do not deserve all that women love. I think women would do better to turn to each other for love and emotional connection than be with a man who do no care much about their feelings and who obviously do not see women as full human beings.

    You are right Joy, we can give up on men and this to our own benefit and well-being.

    Thanks to our feminist predecessors, we don’t need to be economically dependent on men anymore. I now dream of finding a single mother with whom I can share my life with; we could cook together, play with our kids together and have enlightening patriarchy-bashing conversations!

    Candle, it is reassuring to see that there are men out there who empathize with women, I do not hear that often, I usually just hear men defending that filthy industry with twisted arguments (Mr. Fairfield above is a good example; unfortunately, there are plenty of them). Do not indulge in self-hating though, you are not responsible for the harm other men do. You can do good by speaking up to them and genuinely care for the women in your life. It’s difficult for me to think about ever trusting a man again but you give me hope for my daughter that there are still good men out there (eventhough I truthfully hope she will turn out to be a lesbian!).

    p.s. sorry for my bad english (which I hope is not too bad still); english is my second language.

  55. liz February 23, 2012 at 10:03 PM #

    candle:
    RE: males being a virus. Sperm and the body parts that produce and deliver it are the viral aspects of the male anatomy. So basically, sperm is the virus. The key thing about a virus is that it replicates using the host’s cellular machinery and material. Thus each replicated virus is composed completely of its host’s biological material. Which means that it physically resembles the host and, in essence, is an extension of the host.

    Males are composed of and by females. Through the ages, they have replicated successfully using the female’s body. (This is why we see so many world religions referring to the body of a female as a “vessel” and the like, also stressing the reproduction of males over females) This also means that they extensions of the host and thus female because they are composed in her body of her biological material.

    This means that you are a feminine entity that contains sperm. As long as you do not perform viral actions on a female (sex), you remain harmless.

    It seems as though you feel a guilt or responsibility for the actions of males on a whole. The best way to combat these feelings is to behave in a way that brings peace and benefit to the world. Ways of doing this are: telling the truth about males to females who don’t have a clue (and there are SO MANY who don’t and WILL NOT listen to other females), consistently giving away goods and services that should be free but aren’t, or creating a social network or venue that allows for the blossoming of creative, wholesome, and interactive friendships that will make the world a better place.

  56. lizor February 24, 2012 at 10:53 AM #

    @ mechantechatonne, “Masturbate under the power of your own imagination?” Yeah, right. Can’t be done as these dudes souls are so deadened by their entitlement they haven’t even got the creativity to think up something to whap off to.

    @ candle. You need some new friends. And there are non-asswipes out there, just very thin on the ground. You could start by getting involved with some men’s groups that are trying to have a positive effect.

    http://www.antipornmen.org/

    http://www.mystrength.org/

    @ Miss Fit – Your english is excellent! I would never have know it was not your first language.

  57. lizor February 24, 2012 at 11:02 AM #

    @Fede – I used “cuntless wonder” as an insult years ago and then forgot it entirely. Thanks for jarring my memory. I think I’ll be needing that phrase again. ;)

  58. Fede February 24, 2012 at 4:50 PM #

    @lizor – That’s a fantastic insult! HA! I’ll be pilfering that, if you don’t mind. I imagine there’ll be one or two occasions for using it.

  59. lizor February 25, 2012 at 9:09 AM #

    @ Fede – let’s hope it catches!

  60. lizor February 26, 2012 at 12:02 PM #

    Here is something kind of great.

    http://projectunbreakable.tumblr.com/

  61. Urist March 1, 2012 at 9:11 PM #

    Note: for perspective as to what is being said here and so that I don’t look stark raving mad, I am a man. I apologize for polluting this blog with “male perspective”, I usually lurk but felt I had to say something to Candle.

    @Candle:
    The answer as to what you need to do is remove yourself and your poisonous(although less virulently so than some) male aura from the women who you currently know, and do everything you can to encourage other men to do the same. The only way not to be a women’s Nigel, and to avoid oppressing women, is to be uninvolved with them as much as is possible.

    @All commenters: While I’m busy interjecting superfluous maleness into the blogosphere, do any of you know of any organizations, blogs, forums, or other groups devoted to voluntary male extinction? My googlefu has failed me, and it would be nice to see if anyone has, perchance, come upon such a thing in their travels.

  62. FYouMudFlaps March 3, 2012 at 7:40 AM #

    I am a heterosexual man and find myself agreeing with nearly everything discussed here. Nine Deuce, you’re an awesome writer and kind of remind me of a more radical Amanda Marcotte. Anyway, I find myself agreeing with what candle said. I have not had male friends in years, and feel overwhelmingly more comfortable around women, especially lesbians. I’m actually majoring in Gender Studies and already have knocked out a good chunk of feminist classics; e.g. Female Chauvinist Pigs and How to Suppress Women’s Writing. Oftentimes I forget to comment on blogs but hopefully I’ll be involved in this community some.

    p.s. MissFit, there indeed is an actual feminist island you can move to, and that is Iceland. That place seems to be about as advanced as humanity gets, even banning strip clubs.

  63. Vegeta March 9, 2012 at 10:57 PM #

    I AM AN ASCENDED SAIYAN!!!

  64. MissFit March 10, 2012 at 12:43 PM #

    Hey Urist, what I hear from your ‘male perspective’ is that men are inherently misogynist, so we can not get rid of men’s misogyny without getting rid of the men themselves, is that right? Is it why you suggested to Candle that ‘to avoid oppressing women is to be uninvolved with them as much as possible'; because there is no way for men to be involved with women without being oppressive to them?

    What strikes me everytime feminists detail the everyday depictions of woman hating in this society, is that there are always some men who instead of actually confronting the heinous behaviours we denounce, instead of actually discussing the issue, they call us ‘men haters’ (is that what we call ‘projection’?), and are accusing us of hating them just because, well… they truly hate us? Are they really expecting us to respond with love and care? Many women already do.

    What you are saying in fact Urist is that if we women want to be treated like full human beings, if we want respect, self-esteem and dignity (and for that I say we need to get rid of the prevailing misogyny) there is no other solution then to advocate for the complete annihiliation of the human male? I do not know personnally of any organization devoted to voluntary male extinction, maybe you can start your own? And then the men who actually want to improve the lives of women, fight misogyny, work towards equality and harmony between the genders can stay away from it.

    FYMF: thanks for the tip, you made me want to learn more about this country.

  65. Alouette March 14, 2012 at 8:11 PM #

    @Urist, I second MissFit’s suggestion that you start an organization for voluntary male extermination, but I actually think this pursuit could certainly improve women’s lives. For curiosity’s sake, what percentage of men do you, a man, estimate are predisposed to dominance seeking and aggression? I’d guess all but a minority or all with a minority able to rationalize through these behaviors, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you.

    Why is it that so many feminists dismiss what men themselves tell us about their natures? If it is indeed impossible to remove masculinity from men (which is what the “man hater” accusations really mean), then all the efforts to reeducate them are in vain. What I want to know is why can feminists only fight misogyny when they have the expectation they will eventually change men? Why is it assumed that to believe men are invariably dangerous is to concede defeat? If men cannot coexist with women peacefully, the correct response isn’t to give up. I want freedom at any cost. Not just for my sake, but for the planet’s. Hell, for the sake of every man’s conscience. Who cares if men are inherently dangerous? The fact remains that they are dangerous. Whether they are capable of changing or not should be irrelevant to our pursuit of liberation for every woman and girl. Perhaps men can come with us to our post patriarchal world, and perhaps not. What’s certain is there will never be a post patriarchal world until women put their freedom from male domination as their top priority.

  66. lizor March 15, 2012 at 8:08 AM #

    “Why is it assumed that to believe men are invariably dangerous is to concede defeat?”

    I don’t think it needs to concede defeat. Men who insist that abuse and exploitation are a part of their essential nature (like the frog and scorpion story where the frog gives the scorpion a lift across the river after which the scorpion kills the frog “because that is the scorpion’s nature”), then social controls need to be employed.

    If a dog has learned to attack children, that dog is exterminated. If some asshole tells me that desire to dominate, abuse, rape and kill is part of his essential nature, then the onus is on me as a citizen to take appropriate action.

    Personally I think that these behaviours are indications of a deep sickness that is enabled laziness, selfishness, entitlement etc., NOT any “essence”. But if the boys insist that they cannot change, then they cannot stay in the village.

  67. Beatrice Monferd March 15, 2012 at 3:20 PM #

    “Capitalist ideology holds that profit is always good…”

    This is where I stopped reading. Capitalism only holds that profit is allowed to exist and attaches no inherent moral value to it. If capitalism held that profit was always good, it would necessarily dictate that consumerism and other forms of wasted profit are always bad, and since you repeatedly equate consumerism with capitalism you surely agree that capitalism has no problem with consumerism.

    Do you see the disconnect between “it is possible to make money” (capitalism) and “you must make as much money as possible” (fucking stupid)?

    • Nine Deuce March 15, 2012 at 3:35 PM #

      Capitalism as an economic theory and capitalist ideology as a cultural phenomenon/economic system are indeed different. I’m of the opinion that capitalist economic theory is fundamentally ethically flawed (whether an ethical judgement is being made about profit or not, an economic theory or system that does not seek to restrain profit even when that profit comes at the expense of human beings’ lives, health, safety, and freedom is in effect unethical), and that capitalist ideology as a mainstream cultural system upholding an exploitative economic order is exaggeratedly so. The argument that capitalism simply requires that profit be possible rather than presenting it as desirable is a bit ridiculous at this point, though. Capitalism in its actual operation places “growth” and profit above all else, and consumerism is a fundamental component of capitalism’s actual operation. Eighteenth-century capitalist theory might not foreground “you must make as much money as possible,” but the contemporary capitalist world economy sure does.

  68. Beatrice Monferd March 15, 2012 at 3:49 PM #

    Capitalism doesn’t place economic growth above all else, it at most holds that economic growth, ceteris paribus, is a good thing. For example: A devout Christian capitalist would put devotion to God ahead of profit, and a feminist one like me would find many cases where it is more important to protect women (from, say, pollution) than to blindly pursue economic growth.

    *People* tend to put economic growth high on their list of priorities because prosperity is empirically one of the best ways to improve a person’s quality of life. *People* tend to pursue massive amounts of wealth because wealth is good to have and doesn’t necessarily harm others. Yes, people often do harm others while gaining wealth (just as they often harm others while trying to do anything), which is why we have laws to prevent people from harming others, but that is not a necessary condition of income.

  69. Fede March 15, 2012 at 7:03 PM #

    Beatrice Monferd, I am unsure if I completely follow your reasoning. If you do not believe growth and profit to be integral to capitalist systems as we know them, what, then, does it mean to you that for a country to be regarded as having a healthy economy, it is expected to show a positive GDP economic growth rate? I do not see how one can possibly separate capitalism from the ideal of economic growth. Could you explain your stance in more detail?

    Also, I take it that you do not subscribe to the understanding that money = debt? Such an understanding is put forward in the Zeitgeist video series here. I hope you won’t mind my letting others articulate the point for me, but not being a native speaker, I lack the vocabulary to explain it as efficiently as they manage to do.

  70. Beatrice Monferd March 15, 2012 at 7:54 PM #

    Growth and profit are important indicators of a healthy economy, but that is just as true in non-capitalist economies. Prosperity (and economic growth is an indicator of prosperity) is a goal most people aspire to. Prosperity brings us out of the dim agrarian past where farm labor and population growth were needed to survive and women were relegated to the house. Property rights and economic independence (key facets of capitalism) are necessary for women to assert economic control of their lives and finally break away from the old system of wealth ownership where everything was controlled by a family patriarch.

    Communism and other systems of independence entwine our property rights and economic activities with those of men and prevent women from being able to manage their own economic affairs. How are women most oppressed economically? They are forced to marry men and thus lose control of their wealth. Capitalism is the ONLY system where women can create and own wealth, and thus the only economic system where they are truly able to avoid reliance on men.

    Regarding your second point, money does not necessarily require the existence of debt. Debt in the modern sense was invented in the 1400s as a way of moving money around; it’s certainly not needed in a market economy, although some people (especially those who make a living lending money!) argue it helps.

    • Nine Deuce March 15, 2012 at 9:07 PM #

      Money and capitalism are not the same thing. Paper money and credit pre-date capitalism by many centuries, but credit in the sense you are referring to (from the 1400s or so in Europe) was a far different thing than debt in the modern sense. It was chiefly a mechanism for facilitating trade. Consumer debt is a much newer phenomenon.

      Before we continue this discussion, let us please define “capitalism” so that we know we’re talking about the same thing.

  71. Beatrice Monferd March 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM #

    “Capitalism” is notoriously hard to define, but I’d include as main points a relatively free market (including the ability to trade labor for wages) and the ability to own capital.

  72. Fede March 15, 2012 at 11:41 PM #

    Thank you for you response, Beatrice. I agree (I think) that money does not necessarily require the existence of debt, but I do believe the money system in operation today is indeed based on debt.

    Not sure I see why capitalism should be the only system in which women can create and own wealth? Capitalism pretty much reigns supreme at this point in time, so we haven’t actually seen many other systems in action.

    And why even the focus on wealth? For example, the failure of Stalinism does not in and of itself prove that communism could never work. True, women cannot create and own wealth in a communist system, but neither can men, so that does not necessarily make women dependent on men. But enough of this – I sense that I’m getting a little sidetracked.

    As for Nine Deuce’s suggestion that we define what we mean by capitalism, I think that would be very useful, but do not have a definition on hand, I’m afraid, so I’ll shut up on this subject for now and just follow any further discussion with interest.

  73. Nine Deuce March 16, 2012 at 2:34 PM #

    You are defining capitalism as trade and property rights, but it’s conceivable that those two things could exist in a system other than capitalism.

  74. Urist March 18, 2012 at 10:00 PM #

    @Miss Fit-Mens relationships with women, in today’s society, are inevitably poisoned by the patriarchy. Even if the man in question is actively, sincerely, and consciously working towards not oppressing women, the very fact of their maleness is damaging. Male-female relations invariably reinforce gender roles and patriarchal control.

    @Alouette-It seems I’ve been slightly misunderstood here. Although I would say that many men are indeed predisposed to violent, dominating behavior(the presence of overwhelming amounts of testosterone tends to do that), that predisposition is quite small in the majority of the population. It becomes a problem due to socialization, which is almost impossible for most men to unlearn, and starts incredibly early. Because of that socialization, I’d say (from my personal, anecdotal experience, so basically numbers pulled out of my ass) a good 90% don’t even think about those behaviors, with 9/9.5% that do and do them anyway, and a tiny minority who don’t.

    @Lizor-That “deep sickness” is exactly what I’m talking about. I suppose I should have clarified. When I say maleness, I am referring mainly to the entitlement complex, aggression, laziness, and nastiness that gets attached to most, if not all, men’s identities through socialization early in their lives. It’s not essential to all mens characters to overtly and violently oppress, but it is certainly a major part of many of them. Most, if not all males, are, tragically, the exact type of dog you describe: badly socialized dogs, who need to be contained or put down, as very few seem able to respond to re-socialization.

  75. Gretchen March 21, 2012 at 6:44 AM #

    Brilliant post as always!

    “it is evident that the porn industry is one of the best examples the radical left could point to as an illustration of the flaws inherent in capitalist theory and practice”

    This and the prison industrial complex epitomise capitalist shit hitting the fan and covering us all.

  76. Bill June 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM #

    Some people, even so-called progressives, don’t seem to get it!

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002838002

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002831528

    I could go on, but I don’t think I need to.

  77. rachelpickhardt October 7, 2012 at 9:11 PM #

    I am a strongly feminist female with mixed feelings about porn. For some reason, since childhood, I have had sexual urges (rape fantasies at 12, seeking attention from older males) this seemly stemed from nowhere, but I sometimes suspect I was sexually abused as a child and mistook these sort of feelings for a form of “affection”.
    Of course I began to watch porn at a young age. I still enjoy porn, yet at the same time the idea repulses me! Its so integrated in society that it is seen as prudish to suggest pornography is, essentially, a debasement of women. The idea of pornography is so impersonal – a woman showing her body to thousands of men that don’t know her as a human being and is basically saying “my body is for your pleasure only”
    Bullshit.
    I am a hardcore feminist, but I do enjoy various types of hardcore pornography as well. I don’t think its impossible for a woman to not enjoy the acts depicted, no matter how vulgar. Everyone has their own tastes! Its unfair to say that just because you (a woman) doesn’t enjoy a certain sexual senerio that every woman doesn’t. I am not brainwashed into believing I should like pornography or the acts depicted – I have tried all sorts of things and decided, through personal experimentation which things I like (hair pulling, rough sex, pain) and which things I did not care for (anal, deep throating). NEVER did I do anything solely to impress of please a man.

    All I can say is that it IS their right to debase themselves shamelessly – I can’t tell people what they can and can’t do, no matter how much I hate the idea of pronography. Women don’t realize it makes us look bad. The “attention” they’re getting isn’t respect and they need to wise the fuck up.
    I believe in free sex between TWO people, not a woman getting paid to be shown before thousands of men she’ll never meet. Lets face it, porn won’t go away.
    I think porn should be made available to adults ONLY (again, I can’t tell people what to do) but it should be heavily restricted because what really bothers me is how available porn is to children on the internet. Search “brick wall” into google images and you’ll get an image of a naked woman next to a brick wall – with fucking safe search on. Its shoved in kids faces and it really fucks them up.
    I had a boyfriend in high school who grew up watching internet porn CONSTANTLY. It messed up his view on women and sex entirely. Not to mention, because he was so young when he was introduced to porn, he began to find little girls his age sexually attractive and grew up continuing to be sexually attracted to little kids as he reached adulthood. It was disturbing. I’m not trying to be vulgar or anything, but the first time I gave him oral was just disappointing for us both because he couldn’t finish (note, he was a virgin!) – he was so numb from masturbating and lookng at these fake, plastic looking women most of his life, that he couldn’t be turned on by the real thing.
    THAT is fucked up.

  78. Klaire21 September 22, 2014 at 7:36 AM #

    Oh the hypocrisy couldn’t be any clearer! Don’t ever discuss Porn -men’s holy grail the end all and be all of their existence.
    Men complain about the family breaking down, masculinized females, effeminization of men and are too stupid to see what they are consuming: (apart from the atrocious human exploitation, obvious inebriation etc.) the themes are always about cheating, fucking your step mother, fucking the babysitter but even more importantly -and I had a stint of watching some porn for a certain male actor ( until he started balling in one of the “female-friendly” scenes upon realizing the woman was drunk and he was committing actual rape.) it is always the female in charge while the guy is sort of passively taking what he can get and the sex-hungry whore just can’t control herself. Feminism is not emasculating men – but porn certainly is. It’s either that or total degradation and rape scenarios there is no in between. Feeling wronged by the evil feminists and evil hot girls who turn nice guy down they of course get jealous of the male actor who just shows up and is offered sex so as a revenge nice guy wants to see the evil hot girl get punished. Only a total moron couldn’t see what porn is getting at but they chose to turn a blind eye to the only outlet they have to get even with evil women.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

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