Coming Soon: Coca-Brola

15 Oct

The number of comments I’m required to delete that attempt to defend butthole bleaching tells me that I am not yet free to retire from blogging and bask in the glory of a post-male supremacist utopia, so I suppose I had better get back to it. It’s often hard to decide which squash to pluck from the cornucopia of examples of societal misogyny at my disposal, but I received a comment the other day from GraceMargaret regarding an ad campaign for Dr. Pepper Ten and was confronted not hours later with a dude brandishing a Dr. Pepper Ten, so this one fell into my lap, as it were.

Ad campaigns designed to sell products to men that had previously been marketed chiefly to women aren’t exactly novel at this point, but they seem to be getting more bizarre by the month. What were marketing departments thinking, targeting only women with admonitions to buy, buy, buy beauty and diet products? By associating diet drinks, diet pills, shower gel, and eye firming serums with womanity, the fuckability industries effectively precluded any chance they’d be able to sell any of their wares to people who’d rather die than be associated with women. The challenge overcoming the vagina stigma associated with these products poses to marketing, product development, and advertising departments has resulted in some fairly hilarious material. A recent trip to Target highlighted that for me when I wandered through the shower gel section and found shower pouffes in neon green, neon pink, cream, and aqua, then found the men’s shower gel section, where the pouffes were labeled “men’s shower buffs” and came in navy, maroon, black, and dark gray.  They were also four cents cheaper, which means Target had to — in addition to instructing the factory to create these additional “manly” colors — create a separate SKU for the “men’s shower buff” in order to differentiate it from the faggoty ol’ regular shower pouffe.

But that ain’t shit. Does anyone remember the Axe Detailer Shower Tool (thanks KendallMcK)?

Unilever created a men’s shower “tool” that looked exactly like a tire, then took the automotive theme even further by terming the item a “detailer” and putting out a commercial in which they refer to men’s balls and wiener as the “undercarriage.” Just ridiculous. Men will balk at no suggestion for how they might disassociate themselves with women, apparently, no matter how stupid it makes them look. Just look at the Slim Jim “Manbulance” campaign.

But we’re here to talk about soda. “We’ve been telling you that men drink Coke and women drink Diet Coke for decades, but forget that and start drinking it now, OK, bro?” is a pretty hard sell, but Coke figured, once they formulated a new zero-calorie Coke variant by mixing aspartame and Acesulfame K, that they could solve that problem by marketing the new formula to men as Coke Zero. The can is black and it purportedly tastes more like Coke. Add that to an ad campaign that appeals to the turgid male ego and sense of entitlement and you’ve got an officially non-gay diet soda:

The plan worked. Ask anyone who works in a restaurant who asks them for Coke Zero and opts to order regular Coke when the answer is no.

Though the Coke Zero marketing campaign indicated that it was a product designed for men — who, unlike women, deserve both zero calories and “real Coke taste” — women were never explicitly excluded from the right to quaff the new wonder beverage. Dr. Pepper, however, is letting women know that their new diet soda is for men only, and that women are welcome to fuck off and die before they’ll be invited to drink a DP10 with the boys. Dr. Pepper Ten has ten calories — from actual high fructose corn syrup — in addition to a machine-gun gray can, but the differences between Dr. Pepper Ten and Diet Dr. Pepper don’t end at minor formula adjustments and can design changes; the slogan for the new product is “Dr. Pepper Ten: It’s Not for Women.” Women can drink Diet Dr. Pepper, which “tastes more like regular Dr. Pepper” (than other drinks that weren’t Dr. Pepper or Diet Dr. Pepper before the advent of Dr. Pepper Ten, I’m assuming) or they can drink water or some other gay shit, but they are not welcome to DP10.

The ad mimics Predator, Sniper, Commando, Rambo, etc. and features a generic Action Asshole™ riding around in a Jeep, shooting a giant gun, and battling snakes and bad guys, all the while keeping his cool and nonchalantly informing the women in the audience that this is a movie for men, and Dr. Pepper Ten is soda for men. He then tosses an empty soda can from the vehicle — which triggers a net that catches the antagonists following his Jeep — and triumphantly points at the camera and declares, “catchphrase!” in an attempt to make idiots feel smart for realizing that action movie cliches are cliches in 2011, when everyone else figured it out sometime around 1993.

The question has been raised whether the TV spot is satirical, given the absurd tenor of the Coke Zero and Pepsi Max ads. I would be inclined to take that view if it weren’t for the fact that Dr. Pepper is trying to sell a product to half of all Americans, not fans of the good bits of  The Colbert Report and The Onion, or the fact that Dr. Pepper is planning a “mobile Man Cave” tour in the test market cities to promote DP10 (one of which I unfortunately live in), or the fact that this campaign looks exactly like every other example of dudevertising in recent memory (see the Burger King Seven-Incher, the Slim Jim Manbulance, every commercial ever aired on Spike or FX, etc.). Unclever, self-aware, faux snark deployed by people who don’t understand what they’re parodying or why it deserves derision does not satire make.

Men are going to start drinking Dr. Pepper Ten because men are stupid, but women, according to focus groups, are cool with the no-bitches-or-hoes marketing approach to the extent that they plan to drink the new product, incorrectly assuming that the new formula will come with slightly less cancer than Diet Dr. Pepper. That leads me to two depressing conclusions. First, so many women have absorbed the message that a woman who wears a size four or above is a fundamental failure as a human being that a multi-national corporation can safely assume that, even if they accompany it with a misogynistic marketing push that explicitly states that the product is not for women, women will buy any low-calorie product that appears on a shelf. Women will buy something that they think will help them avoid gaining weight even if it is being sold by an entity that expresses overt disdain for women, which means women have had their self-respect and dignity beaten out of them by the fuckability mandate. Second, men hate women and fear anything associated with womanliness to such an extreme extent that corporations can now sell products to men on the basis of nothing other than their not being for women. What men are buying here is not a diet soda, which was already available in the exact same flavor, but rather a diet soda with a “suck my dick” label. Societal misogyny and the absurdity of gender symbolism have infiltrated the diet soda market to the point that there are now formulas and can designs for men only. Think about that.

48 Responses to “Coming Soon: Coca-Brola”

  1. Hecate October 15, 2011 at 1:38 PM #

    Thanks for this, ND. Your commentary on this sort of propaganda is so sorely needed right now. Speaking of ‘vagina stigma,’ apparently you are less of a woman if you accept the one goddess gave you:

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/oct/14/designer-vagina-surgery?cat=lifeandstyle&type=article

    And I thought this was a little scary, not to mention, disgusting. Happy ‘meatmares’ indeed:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/EpicMealTime

    It’s like a never-ending battle.

  2. No Sugarcoating October 15, 2011 at 1:59 PM #

    When I first saw this ad campaign, I said to myself, WWNDD? I was really hoping you would take this down, and you never fail to deliver.

  3. GXB October 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM #

    Arrgh.
    I hate most sodas including all of the above, but I was thinking “wouldn’t women order a Dr. Pepper 10 just to prove it’s for women too?” ….and then I realized, that’s yet another effect they might want.
    I also thought “well if it’s not-gay, it won’t catch on here in San Francisco” but then remembered that many SF gay spaces have women as an afterthought at best.

  4. gracemargaret October 15, 2011 at 7:57 PM #

    The Facebook page for Dr. Pepper 10 is even worse. This is from Change.org:

    “…there’s a Dr Pepper Ten Facebook page for men only. I had to create a new Facebook page indicating I’m a guy to even view the content. It includes games and videos aimed at being “manly.” There’s a “manly shooting gallery” where men have “23 seconds to take out all the girlie stuff” with the directions of, “If it’s girlie shoot it – if it’s manly avoid it.” There’s a gun scope view on a pair of red high heels and then “girlie” items like lipstick, flowers, rainbows and unicorns flash by cowboy hats, hammers and little plastic toy soldiers. I purposely didn’t shoot anything to see how the game ended. I was confronted with a message; “This shooting gallery is no place for a woman like you.”

    “There’s also a “Man-cronym” section that allows male users to create female bashing acronyms on “manly” type words such as Golf – Guys Outside Lady Free by Andrew V. According to Ryan S Bold stands for Boycott Old Lady Drinks and Manly stands for Men Acting Nobly Ladies Yawn.

    “TV commercials are heavy on the machismo, too including one spot that shows muscular men in the jungle battling snakes and bad guys. “Hey ladies. Enjoying the film? Of course not. Because this is our movie and this is our soda,” a manly man says as he attempts to pour the soda into a glass during a bumpy ATV ride. ‘You can keep the romantic comedies and lady drinks. We’re good.’”

    And this update from Karen Moran , the Change.org Petition Organizer:

    “Some Dr Pepper Facebook fans threading women with rape

    “The outcry among men and women on the Dr Pepper’s Facebook page has been overwhelming. Unfortunately Dr Pepper refuses to respond & instead is deleting posts by anyone who objects to this sexist campaign. Dr Pepper however keeps the Facebook posts that hurl verbal assaults at women “Joe Mag – Good to know you guys are deleting all the posts that are critical to your product but leave all the openly misogynistic ones.” Assaults have including further demeaning women by telling us to “shut up and get back in the kitchen” or worse…rape. The ad campaign needs to end now, an apology should immediately be issued along and a statement made about domestic violence – which is happening right now via numerous ongoing comments on Dr Pepper’s Facebook page.”

  5. Gaffa October 15, 2011 at 8:01 PM #

    I love this blog. I really do. You’ve written a lot of incredibly important, incisive, intelligent pieces. But seriously, what the eff is up lately? There’s the law Congress is trying to pass about no longer requiring Catholic hospitals to at least transfer women to another hospital in cases of medical emergencies rather than perform abortions; there’s Scott Brown’s pronouncement on the fuckability of Elizabeth Warren, and there’s the NYPD mace-ing of women who were simply watching the Occupy protest, and all you can bring yourself to blog on lately are Avatar, Diet Dr. Pepper, and Slim Jim ads? Really?

    I swear, I’m not trying to stir shit and I know that this is your blog and you’re free to write anything you like, but this is largely trivial stuff, and as a longtime reader, I find it kind of disappointing to read stuff like this. Yes, these commercials/movies are lame and sexist and dull and obnoxious, but they’re hardly the most pressing or insidious part of women’s oppression, especially with all that’s going on right now. In the last several months there have been a few serial killers caught; I would’ve thought that would have been a great chance for a discussion on male violence and how serial killers are, to a large extent, simply expressing the masculine ethos taken to its logical conclusion, and how toxic such constructions of masculinity are for women and children. This post, on the other hand, is ground you’ve trod on several times in the past, and it reminds me unnervingly of all the post-modernist academic feminists I dislike so much, in that it focuses on symbols. Of course the advertising is sexist. But this ad is one of many millions of symbols you could have chosen.

    Like I said, I love the blog and I admire you; I don’t think I could deal with all the crap you deal with to even sustain this blog. And it’s not my place to tell you how to write or what to write. I just feel like you’re wasting your voice lately, and it makes me sad and frustrated.

  6. almostclever October 15, 2011 at 10:38 PM #

    Excellent Critique!! U kick ass

  7. nevernotnobody October 15, 2011 at 11:40 PM #

    “fuckability mandate” is the most perfect phrase and descriptor I’ve ever heard.

  8. Hecate October 16, 2011 at 1:06 PM #

    Like Gaffa mentions, I am well aware of the deeper and more insidious crimes against womyn – I feel I lived them to a great extent. But I am also grateful when ND comments on some of the so-called more ‘superficial’ symptoms of sexist thinking. I think they can be incredibly aggravating reminders, like a fly in the ointment, the proverbial nails on the chalkboard, or insert your favorite analogy here…

    Let’s say I had a flashback one morning about the abuse I endured at the hands of a male as a child. Then I go out in the street and either see an awful, sexist billboard or have some idiot ogling or catcalling me. It just puts the shitty icing on an already crumbling cake. So I guess from my perspective, talking about relativity where sexist behavior is concerned makes little sense. I don’t want any manifestation of it anywhere near my person or assaulting my senses, no matter how seemingly slight it may appear to others (usually male others). I could use the breather.

  9. Hecate October 16, 2011 at 2:45 PM #

    This article and the comments following it are good examples of what I’m talking about:

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/680795/%22hot_chicks_of_occupy_wall_street%22%3A_really%2C_bro?page=entire

  10. Rae October 16, 2011 at 7:49 PM #

    Reality check: Maybe 92 spends most of her time writing academic papers on serious feminist stuff, so maybe she doesn’t have the time/energy/inclination to blog about what you consider appropriately serious topics. Since there have already been tons of blog posts on the legislation you mention, the Warren comments, and feminist issues relating to the OWS movement, maybe its ok that not every blogger ever (even a truly insightful one like 92) writes about them!

  11. Sugarpuss October 16, 2011 at 11:20 PM #

    I fail to see how this new variety of Dr. Pepper is going to satisfy their secret thirst for manseed.

    • Nine Deuce October 16, 2011 at 11:38 PM #

      Shhhh! You are blowing my next post!

  12. Sugarpuss October 16, 2011 at 11:52 PM #

    LOL @ Blowing

  13. Alina October 17, 2011 at 12:49 AM #

    It has always annoyed me, that Coke had to create Coke Zero in addition to Coke Light in order to appeal to men, who think its “pussy” to drink Diet Coke. Im not sure wether I find European or US adds more sexist, you do see alot of skin over here.

    There is that 1 commercial for captain Morgan Rum ,that basically is about a guy who has alot of women (also a girlfriend, so he is cheating ) so they sell this idea of the cheating womanizer as the he-man.

    For some reason I am more concerned about America tho, I havent seen anthing overly sexist on American tv yet ( I watch online streams, I got hooked in Mexico this year), but I watched some show on tru tv called “the dumbest” something or other.
    There was Frankie Stallone saying stuff like, “Ukraines got talent!? whats next fucking Ughanda”, and some other crap about russians being two faced or some shit. Now I know that this show is on the lower end of the intellectual tv programmes, but I still was beyond shocked. So I can imagine that its very similar with sexism.

    9Deuce, Im not sure wether you really thought about stopping to blog, but I think you said something similar before. I wanna say that we need you!!! Whenever I need a break or hope, I come over here. I made my bf read many of your posts, and I stolen some of your brilliant quotes that I could of never thought of myself.

    (it sounds ass kissingish, and I dont wanna put pressure on you, but I needed to say it)

  14. Alina October 17, 2011 at 12:58 AM #

    I only just watched the dr.pepper 10 ad and I really think its satire, look at how he spills the coke and if they were more serious he would be drinkin the drink out of the can not out of a “faggoty”

    One of the issues is, that many men will not see it as satire, and take it serious & quote the fucking shit. Oh god I see it coming, and they will post it on facebook.

  15. ball buster October 17, 2011 at 8:43 AM #

    I really like these posts. I don’t think they’re trivial at all. They illustrate how men move the goal posts.

    Back in the early nineties I remember when “non-traditional trades” were being advertised to poor women because middle class white doodz figured out that they would make more money learning about computers. Suddenly computers became the new “manly” vocation to get into. Computers=money=power=getting more bitches. Suddenly sitting behind a desk and typing on a computer wasn’t just for nerdy bitches anymore. It was for high powered exec-types that could write off their trip to the strip club as a business expense.

    It used to be that hands-on trades were seen through the lens of masculinity – i.e. muscle, sweat, the sparks of machinery, the intensity of heat, ect. Now such boring, dull, base jobs are for bitches apparently. Bitches need jobs, too, so we get the jobs men don’t want anymore. You know, so we can’t sit on our fat, lazy asses and collect welfare. Bitches don’t deserve welfare, men who own corporations do.

    Men knew that it would kill several birds with one stone. Men would get to break in the field of jobs that paid the best, women would be knocked off the welfare rolls and press-ganged into trades to pick up the slack in trades men were abandoning in favor of the best opportunities of the time. And to add insult to injury – men got to pat themselves on the back for being so “generous” for giving us their cold, stale leftovers.

    And then the dot.com industry boomed and bombed shortly thereafter (what did we expect, something sustainable?), of course it will never be the same again and especially after the crash of ’08, women will never have the same quality of opportunity men had in the 90’s-early 00s. That window is closed and locked. Who the hell knows when the next one will be, if there will even be one – and all bets are if there are, men will #occupy those too.

    In fact, middle class doodz are *still* going to college to study computer programming, even though they know that a huge chunk of those jobs have been shipped overseas. Because they know that they will get a job before any bitch is going to, and if she does, she’d better be hot and willing to do the banal tasks men can’t be bothered with. Men also know that their job will take them to exotic countries where they can have access to prostitutes without sweating it out at home worrying if the ad they’re reading has been made by a cop.

    Anyway.

    These posts aren’t superficial at all, if one is willing to read and understand the point in the first place. And it is this – that men hate the idea of being seen on the same level as women, and this requires distancing themselves from anything that might mistake them for being a bitch. Being a woman means being irrelevant and being preoccupied with irrelevant things (lipstick, high heels, and now diet soda, apparently). No “real man” would want to be confused with being a woman, so men now have to adopt Hobbesian behavior so they CAN NOT be confused with being a pussy. Woman=failure to be a man.

    And Alina is right – assholes are going to actually quote that dr pepper10 shit like it’s gospel, just like how they quote Tyler Durden from Fight Club to prove how fucking macho they are.

    I am going to print up some effigies of DrPepper10 and burn them outside my house. There will be diabolical juju in the air tonight.

  16. elise October 17, 2011 at 12:38 PM #

    That’s just how white people are.

  17. monsieurmittens October 21, 2011 at 2:49 AM #

    the biggest revolution in advertising was the application in the 1950’s of motivational research to the hawking of crap you don’t need, probably do not want but have to have. it was an outrageous success. psychologists and sociologists were engaged. they figured out that telling people( real humans being men because they had all the fucking money) what they want and how they will be perceived for buying object X drives mad profits. it’s anything but superficial- millions are spent having scientists study human behavior, testing subjects and objects, to come up with successful products and ads . (although, seriously, these ads look like they arose from a drunken circle jerk populated by 14 year old sociopaths who are freaked they get excited while wrestling with their best bro. )

    the basic premise of MR driven advertising is that you’re not selling diet soda or body spray but hip and awesome chick slaying masculinity ( or : you ain’t no fucking fag , you bitch magnet ,you. because being used sexually like a woman is the worst thing in the entire world for an actual human.). if our society did not find constantly shoring up and confirming the patriarchal construct of masculinity( for wildly insecure men who require constant attention and proof they have a peen) while conversely using woman as hot ornaments for male consumption and use, the patriarchal construct of femininity, central to the collective psyche (in a culture that’s becoming more and more nothing but consumerism as lifestyle and art), these ads would be completely ineffective. no one would buy axe and no one would drink the dead butch diet dr. pepper. simply, these ads wouldn’t exist . now it’s just more fashionable for hipster adult males of a certain age (whose tastes and buying habits drive the economy and the entertainment medias where cultural mores and fashions are popularized and spread) want to fit into pants made for 12 year old girls (while looking like Maoist lumberjacks) and to actually tend to their personal hygiene without gay shaming. they’ve managed to find a way to do it that’s not all icky, girly, and faggy. these ads sell patriarchy in whatever dude-ish way is au currant with crappy hollywood and popular music asshole celebrities. they are cartoonish and heavily gadget oriented because lots of technology and machines is manly as fuck especially when doing gay shit like cleaning your body or losing weight so you can fit your fat man ass into skinny jeans.

    it makes the baseball players, boy racers, and girls in bathing suits seem less sexist and much less boorish:

    these new ads seem fucking stupid- geared towards morons- but no company spends millions on ads that are not going to work. they are focused like a laser on their target audience’s desires, emotional responses, and self esteem- all of which will be stoked by buying- and, apparently, defending- this manly shit. that the pukes who like dr.penis ten are threatening those who object to the company’s misogyny with rape proves your entire point. these ads are sex role propaganda that speaks to the findings of decades of market research . research that precisely points out how to appeal to deeply embedded societal constructs that trigger the compulsions to conform and, most importantly, to buy product and with that product an appropriate, sanctioned identity. that they even exist in such hyper-driven, near absurd forms , are so plentiful and successful in selling crap speaks to how our culture sees and presents gender identity. we will never stop or at least make unacceptable the pervasive hatred of women ( that results in the dehumanization, brutalization, and deaths of real females) if we do not address how we culturally sanction, foment , and spread this hate. serial killers and rapists , porn addicts, woman haters, and homophobes are not born , they are made by our society , reflecting it’s core values as well as its prejudices. pointing out this absurdity is calling our culture out , holding it responsible for proving the environment for and ideology behind the many barbaric real life tragedies of hating women. advertising consciously engages and manipulates cognitive dissonance for the seller’s, the propagandizer’s benefit . that media seems to have convinced many who would call themselves humanitarians and feminists that degrading women is loving them and can actually represent female liberation/empowerment is the proof of how successful they have been. we wouldn’t have gotten here if generations of automatons had not learned how to behave ,what to crave, and who they have to be by staring at tv, movie, and computer screens nearly from birth. media is the drug of a nation . it’s controlled by men with an hysterical fear and hatred of the female hysterically concentrating and protecting their power and privilege.

    [ i was going to post this 2 days ago but thought it was too much. after reading your newest entry i decided to send it along. do not for a second think advertisers are unaware of what strings they are pulling, what nasty little hatreds and insecurities they are tugging at. they spend billions ensuring they’ll sell tons of shit. they perfectly well understand the psychology of those they are trying to get in the pockets of.

    and thank you for your wonderful site- after finding it i have spent weeks pouring over the posts and comments. it is an oasis- smart and entertaining.]

  18. C.S. October 26, 2011 at 12:16 AM #

    When I read ND’s articles, I get the sense that she’s telling men that they should also be insulted by this type of marketing. Well, I think that’s why I enjoy her writing anyway.

  19. bleachy butt October 26, 2011 at 8:03 AM #

    But I love getting my butthole bleached and my choices exist in a vacuum and thus don’t propagate any oppressive social narratives!

  20. Sugarpuss October 28, 2011 at 5:04 AM #

    C.S. said

    I get the sense that she’s telling men that they should also be insulted by this type of marketing.

    What if she’s not? Why do men always think they have to be the target audience, even on a Feminist blog?!

    Fucking spoiled brats.

  21. Hecate October 28, 2011 at 1:36 PM #

    I know Sugarpuss, it’s the ‘sexism affects men too,’ trope. Well, it may be that it does, but they can’t well complain when they are the origin of such foul behavior, and have benefited from it more often than not.

  22. liz November 7, 2011 at 9:10 PM #

    to the person who posted the comment with the link to the guys who make “novel” meat dishes: there is truly a link between meat consumption and masculinity.

  23. Hecate November 8, 2011 at 12:38 AM #

    Mmm, I know liz. Isn’t it just incredibly appetizing?! :D In the one I saw, one of those dudebros was describing breaking eggs over ground meat as ‘chicks sliding over my beef.’ Um yeah, go caveman! The mind boggles…

  24. Retail Robot November 9, 2011 at 7:01 PM #

    Thank you so much for this post! I’ve become so aware of these kinds of commercials that it’s hard for me not to get angry at the television these days.

    Did you ever see this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9LTRbWsGOI

    It REALLY pissed me off. Apparently girls aren’t allowed to be tomboys!

  25. Hecate November 9, 2011 at 8:08 PM #

    Ew, the Mom is such a Stepford Wife. I hope the girl builds herself a tank, to get her freedom from Mom-zombie there, and hopefully gets to run over a few more Stepford Wives in the process. Actually now I think about it, maybe we can call Tank Girl to the rescue…

  26. Retail Robot November 9, 2011 at 8:58 PM #

    Haha! Glad I’m not the only one who was totally disgusted by it. And, I love my gays but let’s face it…if this commercial was about a little boy dressing up as a girl MAJOR shit would have gone down. Major.

  27. Hecate November 9, 2011 at 10:31 PM #

    :D So true, Retail Robot. Yes, any company daring to put a boy in a dress in their ad(s) would likely face immediate legal action from the American Family Association or a similar group. But of course it’s perfectly fine to toy with a young girl’s healthy sense of self and expression. No problem there.

  28. Sugarpuss November 10, 2011 at 4:51 AM #

    I remember when I was about 13 or so, one of my classmates at school called me an “icky tomboy”. I found that strange, considering the fact that she wasn’t exactly all frills & lace herself. Oh she tried alright, but the vast majority of her ham-fisted attempts at practicing femininity always blew up in her face. LOL

  29. Kara November 10, 2011 at 9:15 AM #

    Hey, totally off the topic but I couldn’t find an email address and you don’t have to post this comment but I would LOVE to hear your opinion on the whole Penn State issue right now…maybe it’s just super important here in PA but still it shows how obsessed with football people are even to the point of defending someone who didn’t report a rape.

  30. Hecate November 10, 2011 at 11:49 AM #

    Oh Sugarpuss, how I wish my Mom had encouraged me to dress more like an ‘icky tomboy’ at 13. Really, I would have felt safer. I think the decision to dress in very revealing clothes or even just more flowery feminine ones, should be made by a woman, not a girl. A young girl’s identity is something she needs to figure out all on her own. Lots of people come in with their opinions, wanting to help her ‘get a date’ or something silly. For me, school was always the top priority, not jizzy boys. I tried to reason with them in college, but gave up in that case too :D

    Even some women are pretty darned clueless in the category of dress. I once had a co-worker who wore these absurd, ultra-spiky stilettos to work every day! Sure, she had a bunch of nerds drooling all over her, given that it was a tech company. But that just smacked of inappropriateness to me, much as I feel females have a right to express themselves.

  31. Sugarpuss November 10, 2011 at 10:03 PM #

    Hecate said:

    Oh Sugarpuss, how I wish my Mom had encouraged me to dress more like an ‘icky tomboy’ at 13.

    Well, growing up poor, clothing options were scarce. I just wore whatever my mother could afford, and that was usually jeans, t-shirts, fleece pants & tops, etc. Just whatever was on sale at Walmart. I wore a lot of boys’ t-shirts because they had funny graphics on them and they were much cheaper (and more comfortable) than the standard offerings for girls. In stark contrast, my underwear was usually something a bit fancier (eg. red satin with black lace trim). I haven’t decided whether this was a choice made due to influence from my extreme sex-pozzie mother, or my own subconscious attempt at creating balance.

    For me, school was always the top priority, not jizzy boys [...]

    Exact opposite for me. I hated school, felt I was above it, and dropped out in 7th grade. As for boys…well, in kindergarten, I got in trouble for grabbing at a little boy’s crotch. LOL I was very sexually aware, due to my home environment. My mother allowed me to view her Playgirl magazines and, later on, her entire porn stash. So, when I had a crush on a particular boy, it wasn’t experienced in the same way as other (more innocent) girls.

    I once had a co-worker who wore these absurd, ultra-spiky stilettos to work every day!

    Random thought on this topic:

    Isn’t it strange how most of the trappings designed to make women look ‘hawt’ are usually bad for our health? Heels destroy women’s feet & legs. Thongs? Bladder infections. Tight pants? Possible nerve damage. Underwire bras? Uncomfortable + some research suggests that they can cause benign, but very painful, tumors to develop in the breast tissue. Cosmetic surgery? Well, this one is pretty obvious; same risks as any other major surgery + a few extras…and it’s not even medically necessary. All of this crap is done for the sake of appeasing a bunch of troglodytes who, for the most part, can barely manage the uber-complicated task of wiping their asses correctly.

    I feel like I’ve said this (or a slightly modified version of it) before, but it deserved an encore. :)

  32. Hecate November 11, 2011 at 11:54 AM #

    Very interesting Sugarpuss :D I have no problems with women, or even younger girls being a little more assertive in their pursuit of the opposite sex. I got more assertive with men that way in college, then got bored with them all over again, and went back to avoidance tactics. But I sure hated boys when I was in grade school. Then again, for the better part of that, it was a Seventh Day Adventist school. That just messed my head up in general, really. I think what happened was that the boys and girls were equally confused, and so for the most part, avoided each other. I’m glad I broke away from them when I did. Today I guess you could say I feel that sexual repression is wrong, but so is pressuring people to get into a sexual practice(s) they are uncomfortable with. Living in SF, the latter tends to happen, unfortunately. Lots of past partners have expected me to be ‘ok’ with being in an open relationship, which I never was and I don’t think I ever will.

    “All of this crap is done for the sake of appeasing a bunch of troglodytes who, for the most part, can barely manage the uber-complicated task of wiping their asses correctly.”

    Yep! I couldn’t have said it better myself!

    Spot-on about all the health problems caused by the female disease to please. I suffered greatly just as a result of picking up a Victoria’s Secret bra on sale a few years back. I know, shame on me. But I did pay for it dearly, as it gave me great big red welts under my breasts, which started blistering and took a month to heal. Suffice it to say, I threw it out, only to learn later that they were getting sued for using formaldehyde in their production process. Oh, how I live being given all the consideration of a corpse. I live for that ‘embalmed’ feeling. Oh yeah.

  33. Sugarpuss November 12, 2011 at 3:01 AM #

    Hecate said:

    Lots of past partners have expected me to be ‘ok’ with being in an open relationship, which I never was and I don’t think I ever will.

    Well, usually, when a dude says he wants an “open relationship”, what he really means is…open for him; the woman is expected to remain 100% loyal at all times. No strange dick allowed! LOL Men are such hypocritical shitheads.

    I suffered greatly just as a result of picking up a Victoria’s Secret bra on sale a few years back. I know, shame on me. But I did pay for it dearly, as it gave me great big red welts under my breasts, which started blistering and took a month to heal.

    Ugh! Sounds fucking awful. I usually stick to sports bras or nothing at all, but then I can get away with running around braless because I barely fill a B-cup. :D

    Regarding the previous topic of chocolate: Have you tried the Ferrero Rondnoir dark chocolates? If you do, be prepared to fall backwards when you take your first bite. No, really, they are so good that you could fall backward into your kitchen table and knock over a giant bowl of salad greens and spend the rest of your evening cleaning up said mess…not that I’m speaking from experience or anything. *cough* *cough*

  34. Hecate November 12, 2011 at 2:51 PM #

    Wow thanks for the chocolate recommendation Sugarpuss! Just in time for that time of the month. Lol. I can be what many might call a ‘chocolate snob’ when I have the income for it. Used to buy Richart chocolates by the barrelful from our ferry building here near the Embarcadero. That, along with specialty cupcakes. I figured out that this is why my fellow San Franciscans exercise so much – they want to gobble down the latest foodie trends. It’s awesome here that way :) And not always necessarily expensive if you know your neighborhoods, like most cities, I guess.

    Yes, by all means, let’s forgo hookups with ‘open relationship dude’ for those ‘kitchen table’ experiences :D Sounds like a plan to me!

  35. sneeky bunny November 12, 2011 at 6:10 PM #

    May I recommend Theo’s Chocolates? They are fair trade, in addition to being astonishingly good. If you are ever in Seattle, and have the opportunity, I suggest taking the tour of their tiny little factory. It involves a lot of samples. :) Their salted caramels are a religious experience.

  36. Hecate November 13, 2011 at 3:17 PM #

    I live in Seattle for about a year. Also a good city for the culinary delights, and there seemed to be the same openness to alternative health solutions as in California. Well, I guess the west coast is a good bet in general, really. Lots to explore. I was born on the east coast, and am always amazed at the differences between the two. I still get labeled ‘uptight’ by Californians for doing my best to be on time – that’s the east coast part of me that just won’t go away, but I don’t see it as a bad thing.

  37. sneeky bunny November 13, 2011 at 9:08 PM #

    Yeah I don’t get that being late thing. I hate being late. And you are so right about the food in this town!

  38. Sugarpuss November 14, 2011 at 4:55 PM #

    @92: heh I pretty much figured that last comment wouldn’t make it through. Felt good to type it nonetheless. :P

    So…anyhow, Hecate, trust me, Fererro is the way to go. It’s not like your average, everyday chocolate candy. Basically, it’s got a crispy outer later with a creamy filling, and usually a nut in the center, depending on what variety you get. There’s nothing else quite like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrero_Rocher

  39. Hecate November 14, 2011 at 7:02 PM #

    Yes I intend to try one soon Sugarpuss ;) Also, having lived in Italy, I was around the Ferrero brand quite a bit, indulged in the Nutella and so forth :D And oh my, they’ve got this great specialty chocolate from Turin called ‘Gianduja,’ which is basically a triangular-shaped hazelnut candy. I’d call it the solid version of Nutella. So damn good. Man, they know how to live there. Some of them left work early if a good meal was to be had! I bet they still do.

  40. Hecate November 14, 2011 at 7:14 PM #

    Oh looking at the Wikipedia entry, I spotted this:

    “In the Channel 4 comedy Father Ted, when a group of three bishops visited, Mrs. Doyle stacked the Ferrero Rocher in a cone shape and the bishops proclaimed, “Father Ted, with these Rochers you are really spoiling us.”

    Love Father Ted too! :)

  41. Sugarpuss November 14, 2011 at 9:49 PM #

    I had a major pig-out on Saturday night. I bought a Fererro combo pack (rocher, rondnoir & garden coconut flavors), a box of baby swiss Cheez-its & a whoopie pie!

    The entire event made me pretty sick, but was well worth it. :D

  42. sneeky bunny November 14, 2011 at 10:00 PM #

    Oh, Nutella…..
    I actually can’t keep it in the house or I’ll just sit on the couch with a jar of it and a spoon until it is alllllllll gone.

  43. Hecate November 14, 2011 at 11:38 PM #

    Yep, Nutella is pretty much a candy bar in a jar Sneeky :D

    It’s like food porn in here right now! Lol.

    I’m guilty of that myself, Sugarpuss. Last time my family was visiting, I got them to drive me to Krispy Kreme. Mom and sis were on their respective diets, so were not thrilled about indulging me. But what is life without the occasional treat? :) And at any rate, I have my 5-mile walks to rely on if I get too carried away…

    Got a genuinely nice compliment from a man today by the way. An elderly gentleman saw me with my groceries and said ‘Damn, u a strong woman!’ I had a lot of stuff in my back pack and two full bags in my hands. It’s just how I roll, being as I am carless, but I was happy that for once, a man was really admiring my strength and not taking the opportunity to ‘get friendly’ or anything. You get that occasional decent one every blue moon.

  44. Sugarpuss November 15, 2011 at 11:54 AM #

    I love doughnuts, but they give me terrible colon cramps. LOL Don’t eat them much anymore. Never tried Krispy Kreme, only Dunkin’s & 7-11 bakery.

    My munchy attacks usually don’t affect my weight one way or the other. But that’s probably because I go for several days without eating much of anything, then I suddenly get hungry and plow into a mountain of food. Guess all the calories just even out or something. *shrug* *burp* Oh, I scored an organic turkey for Thanksgiving! Cost twice as much as a Butterball or Honeysuckle…but I just had to have it. And all 12 lbs. of it are just for me. :D

    I carry my groceries home too, most of the time. If I have a lot of stuff, I just push it home in the cart (yeah, they let people do that here).

  45. JustSayin' December 26, 2011 at 10:58 AM #

    If you ever want to see how few women represent pro-femininity, stop by the Saks Fifth Avenue store on 5th Avenue, or any clothing store in the vicinity. I would much rather be oppressed by a man than meander about with women who lack any virtue at all.

  46. Sugarpuss December 27, 2011 at 8:50 PM #

    @JustSayin: I’m going to assume that you have absolutely no idea what the standard, accepted definition of “virtue” is, based on your preference to be oppressed by the least virtuous sex (understatement of the millennium).

    So, yes… please trot off and wallow in the gigantic pigsty of porn-sick, violence-coveting patriarchy. Self-hating handmaidens have no place in Feminism anyhow.

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