Jimmy,

First of all, no-one has said that mastrubation is inhumane. It’s good, easy, free, fun and apparently good for you too. What *is* inhumane however, is mastrubating to images of womyn who are being debased, raped, terrorised and abused.

Second of all, if you are engaging in ANY sexual activity, and the person(s) who are participating with you, aren’t liking it, then that’s firm and definite indicator to DISCONTINUE. If you continue, you are raping/sexually assualting that/those person(s) which is illegal, immoral, unethical and a hate crime (even if it isn’t legally recognised as one, IMHO it is.)

Third, often, many womyn and girls who are forced into/”choose” to enter into pornography are often coerced directly and/or indirectly. For example, many are survivors of childhood sexual abuse, or are rape survivors, some may be drug addicts or alcoholics, some may be trafficked as slaves or coerced by an affiliate/aquantince, some may be poor and/or have no “hireable skills” or formal education. Like with abusive relationships, it is not an industry that is easy to leave or stay away from, especially if you have a pimp/boyfriend/rent payment/drug addiction/child to pay for etc etc

Fourth, even if none of the above were factors, and every single person preforming in pornographic material was there because they really, genuinely wanted to be, you would still be buying and selling human beings. The pornographic “actors” and “actresses” would probably still only receive a nominal, piss poor “service” fee while the producers, pimps and other industry heads laughed their arses off all the way to the bank from royalties and sales.

Fifth, prostitution and pornography (and I think male-stream modelling too,) are the only industry where womyn earn more than men, what does that say about the way we value womyn in our society?

Sixth, again, there’s nothing wrong with wanting sexual stimulation. But you must realise, that sexual activity is not a right; that is, no-one owes it to you. Buying a womon a drink, or a dinner or giving her a lift home or having her look at you is not an entitlement to sexual activity on your part. You will not die if you do not fuck.

Seventh, if you are 13, how old were you when you first looked at pornography? have you ever even kissed someone yet? do you think that looking at such material will pre-determine and shape your ideas and expectations about intercourse and other sexual activity.

Eighth, if every man or boy who said that they thought rape was wrong actually meant it, we would not need to have this conversation. You have no way of knowing whether or not the womyn in pornography actually wanted to be there 200%, you have no way of knowing whether or not you are mastrubating to a womon being raped. So that doesn’t fly with me either.

Ninth (and last, jesus, that was long) you say that you think rape is wrong, yet you say that dominance arouses you. Think that one for a while and if you can’t see how the two are contradictory well. Hm. That’s very troubling to say the least.

Every single question I asked was serious btw.

PS: Rape is wrong. Plain and simple. Rape porn is weird, but dominance is arousing for me for some reason… Is that weird??

PPS: Im 13.

And call it “shame” if you damn well want. Whatever you want to call it, the emotion is useless.

What hole? That’s why I qualified my original statement with “level-headed” and “non-reactionary”. I never said, “Show me the white person who would react defensively” because of course they are legion. Defensive sexists/misogynists are legion, too. My argument is that that defensive segment of the white population is overtly/covertly bigoted, in the same way that dudes who get all testerical when a woman expresses her contempt for sexism in a generalized way (“I hate men”) are getting testerical precisely because of their sexism/misogyny. The guiltier the conscience, the more likely a person is to have a knee-jerk NOT ME! moment. It’s just human nature. Whenever I overhear/read derogatory comments aimed at whites, I feel saddened and ashamed of my genetic association with the oppressor. I think it’s the only decent human response in such a situation. I’ve never known a non-bigot to flip their lid, just as I’ve never known a non-sexist to flip their lid over criticism/condemnation of their sex.

Oh, and “white guilt” is not something to aspire to maintain. Guilt is a terribly unproductive emotion; one that people often tend to try to rid themselves of by shunting whatever “blame” they can onto others.

I think you might be confusing “guilt” with “shame”. Guilt is earned psychic discomfort resulting from unethical behavior. It can motivate you to better yourself, or you can easily ignore it (many people have perfected the art of guilt avoidance). Not to be confused with the yoke of self-loathing known as shame. I know they’re used interchangeably in the English language, but they exist on different levels conceptually.

Research into ending racism actually supports the concept of “white guilt”. People who are taught that they benefit unfairly from white privilege are more likely to take action to end racism. People who are taught to view racism as a systemic social problem unrelated to them directly are more apathetic. Privilege isn’t something you can conscionably brush under the rug. If it needles at you, as it should any decent human being, the only way to unburden yourself is to participate in revamping the system that created it.

Social activism has its roots in guilt (did you really think compassion was responsible?). It’s that gnawing discomfort with the way things are that propels people to help others. If you feel nothing, you do nothing. Happiness breeds complacency, and low-level psychic pain produces action (people naturally seek out cessation to pain…they don’t do shit when they’re feeling fine). White dudes have gotten so very, very far in life by surrounding themselves with guilt forcefields that allow them to feel no pain.

Yet I get the sense from your comment that you’re trying to make this personal, and I really have no idea why.

Then you happen to know a hell of a lot of overt/covert bigots.

No shit? The percentage of white people who “actively seek to correct the racial power differential” is as fucking infinitesimal as the number of MEN who actively seek to correct power differentials based on sex and gender.

There is no significant difference there in the willingness of the oppressive group to listen, or do the “math” you suggested up there. Because no, most people seriously do not do that math. They certainly don’t do that math when they are reacting in a knee-jerk fashion to someone they believe is unfairly singling them out and being “mean” to them on the basis of something they can’t change (like racial identity).

Also, I’m not sure what you meant to say by suggesting I “surround myself” with bigots. Even on very strictly moderated “safe space” feminist forums I read, white people’s BUTTHURT over comments like, “I hate white people” comes up over and over and has to be shut down for the sake of the safety of the space. Have you seriously never seen this, or is the only feminist issue you talk about on blogs/forums porn? I’m seriously asking, because I don’t get how you can’t have seen the ongoing issue which is white feminism’s racism unless you were sticking closely to a topic of discussion where racism rarely comes up.

And tell me, do you live on an all-lesbian radical feminist commune to avoid men and women who aren’t interested in challenging misogyny? If not, your social group must be full of bigots.

Living “surrounded” by bigots isn’t exactly a personal choice, because the vast, vast majority of people are bigots in one respect or another.

Oh, and “white guilt” is not something to aspire to maintain. Guilt is a terribly unproductive emotion; one that people often tend to try to rid themselves of by shunting whatever “blame” they can onto others. Guilt also fosters resentment and paralysis. White people who are genuinely invested in supporting anti-racist movements should do their best to move past guilt.

Even if the womon was enjoying herself in such sickening porn, it still says something very disturbing about those who would want to watch it [especially since they don't know *for sure* that she's consenting happily].

Then you happen to know a hell of a lot of overt/covert bigots. Why are you hanging around with people like that? Unless someone has a nefarious hidden agenda or is stupid enough to believe they’re living in a post-racism utopia (and I’ve yet to meet a racism denialist who isn’t at least a little bit racist), you aren’t going to meet a rational, social conscience-having homo sapien who’s incapable of deducing: racial minority member + heinous racist shit racial minority member has been subjected to = “I hate white people.”

Treating that kind of thing as an individualized comment/personal attack is privileged behaviour, full stop, and all privileged groups do it.

We aren’t in disagreement here, the only difference being our social groups, since it appears that you’re almost exclusively surrounded by bigots, whereas the people I elect to associate with – i.e., the ones who look like me – suffer from “white guilt” and actively seek to correct the racial power differential.

Really? In my experience Bluecat, practically every damn time.

Treating that kind of thing as an individualized comment/personal attack is privileged behaviour, full stop, and all privileged groups do it.

@Johnny:

There is no such thing as “reverse sexism”. That’s like saying a POC is capable of being “reverse racist”. Non-marginalized groups cannot be discriminated against.

When a woman says she “hates men”, she’s using universally-understood-by-all-women code that encapsulates years, if not decades, of frustration with the institutional and culturally pervasive discrimination and mistreatment of women. It has nothing to do with individual men, it is not a blanket condemnation of every penis owner that ever has or ever will walk the earth, nor is it an airing of grievances with former lovers or relatives. It literally means “I hate patriarchy.” Because patriarchy was established for the benefit of men, to the detriment of women, and continues to flourish because of men, it is sometimes simpler and immensely gratifying to summarize: I hate men!

When POC say, “I hate white people!”, level-headed, non-reactionary white people do not automatically assume that they, themselves, are the target of bigotry-fueled righteous indignation, do they? I suppose you might react defensively if you had a guilty conscience. I always imagine that men who misinterpret women’s legitimate outrage as a personalized attack, or, worse, frame it as a “gender war”, are probably the biggest purveyors of sexism/misogyny. If you aren’t part of the problem, then there’s no need to get your boxers in a wad.