I DID close out those italics, I promise.

1. Just because a woman was involved in the production, doesn’t mean it’s automatically feminist (or even not-anti-feminist). Need I mention the Pussycat Dolls?

2. How would a viewer possibly be able to evaluate that? And what is “genuine,” vis-a-vis feminism? Surely it’s obvious that one’s personal likes/dislikes do not exist in an cultural vacuum?

3a. Eh? The “boundaries” of moviesex expand every year, and not necessarily in good ways. Just a few years ago, the donkey punch was an urban legend whispered amongst teenaged pre-rapists. Today, it’s a full-blown porn reality, and it’s even crept into mainstream cinema.

To call this a list of feminist criteria is patently ridiculous. Did any thought go into it? It’s like it was typed up in 40 seconds by the most oblivious “postpostfeminist” I could imagine. Incredibly, these people think they’re helping.
(Note, I’m not trying to attack you personally Charlie— I’m sure you didn’t author it. In fact, I’m glad you posted it where I could see it, because it is such an excellent example of “with friends like these…”)

Personally, I do not enjoy sexual relations with anyone that I do not have a pre-established basis of trust with. Call it insecurity, neurotic, high-maintenance, spoiled, whatever you want! I always end up feeling lonely. It’s not a conquest for me; I don’t feel that sense of satisfaction that other people seem to (or that I do when I’m with someone I care about). Any brief physical pleasure I *might* enjoy is too often overshadowed/tainted by the emotional frustration and confusion that follows. Again, this is ME. And yes, I have fantasies, both when I am with and especially when I am without a partner. They are not always “feminist” or “politically correct” fantasies, but I DO continuously question my desire and attempt to “train my brain” by steering it away from culturally conditioned cravings that I think are objectional. I’m not entirely successful, but it’s coming along slowly.

I believe that fantasies can be about mutual pleasure, they can be about people you know and love (or have known/loved in some way at some time). They are not exclusively or necessarily about one party objectifying or merely *using* the other to get off (as a tool of physical pleasure). I guess I think that fantasies are more than purely visual, even if mental images are part of it. I think there’s a strong emotional aspect to fantasy as well.

What do you think, are fantasies purely visual (and therefore impersonal)?

Anyways, I do not believe that glorifying anonymous sex will help women to see *themselves* or to be seen by others as fully human. I do not believe it is something we, as a society, should seek to propagandize or to promote as a healthy form of sexuality. Nevertheless, it is NO DOUBT a “slippery slope” when we start talking about what people can/should think about and enjoy!

I believe this discussion begs the question as to whether/to what extent our desires are culturally conditioned and to what extent our desires are “natural” and immutable. In my humble opinion, our desires are conditioned reactions to particular stimuli. I also believe that they can *and do!!!* change/evolve. (Traditional, foundational, radfem philosophy, I know!)

Yes, one aesthetic value system will surely be replaced by another. Which is why I think it’s sooo important to analyze the NON-visual VALUES which support aesthetic preferences. Especially when those preferences relate to human bodies!

I’ve been thinking a lot about the philosophy of aesthetics. From the surrounding comments, it sounds like you are too (standards of beauty). It’s a fascinating topic! Particularly in relation to women because our value is so entrenched in our physicality.

Ultimately, I think that de-personalization is bad for humans in general. And not feminist!

Thanks for the discussion! :)

It sounds like you were at the talk by Tristan I was at (sooo unbearable to sit through! :-( ).

Would you mind e-mailing me at realwordnerd at AOL dot com?

I’d just like to say hi to another anti-porn fem in the area (if you really are in the area!).

Yes. Dictation of perception is problematic, period.

“It will always be”

Why is that?