Bill Maher’s a liberal. That means he supports your right to suck his dick.

19 Sep

Bill Maher sucks. Playboy liberalism sucks.

I don’t think there’d be any possible way for me to exaggerate about how much I hate Bill Maher. In fact, people I know often ask my opinion about him, pretending not to know, just in order to see me get all flustered and angry. For some reason I’ve of late received a few queries on what Bill Maher’s problem is, and on what the fuck is wrong with liberal dudes in general (can you believe someone had to ask my opinion on something?), so I figure the time has come for me to explain myself on this matter. 

I’ll be the first person to bemoan the lack of liberal messages in media of all kinds, and I’ve had a few well-meaning (har har) associates point out a seeming contradiction between my complaining on that subject and my complaining about Maher and his ilk. They tell me I ought to lay off of liberal comedians and liberal talk show hosts because we have so few of them, and that it’s people like me that destroy the unity of the party.

As if I give a fuck about that. First, I’m not a Democrat. Democrats are namby-pamby pansy-wansy centrists these days, and I’m fairly radical in my political and social views. That doesn’t mean I’m for armed revolution or anything, just that my gradualism looks different from their gradualism, which has been moving to the right since about the late 1960s.  Second, liberalism doesn’t allow for anything like the kind of “party unity” we see on the right. Liberalism’s foundation is the free exchange of competing ideas, not “party unity.” Know who was all about “party unity”? Hitler, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-shek, and Stalin. Party unity is the road to a dictatorship, and that’s why a liberal party won’t ever display the kind of unity you see in a conformist, jingoistic, right-wing outfit that simplifies every issue under the sun, no matter what its complexities, into a contest between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. If the Democrats get any more unified they’ll become Republicans. No thanks. Third, how liberal is Maher? I mean, yeah, he’s opposed to the Bush administration and its policies and spends half his show every week verbally licking Bill Clinton’s ass, but what does that mean other than that he agrees with, like, 80% of Americans and is impressed with a dude who is better at convincing women to get naked than he is? Finally, Bill Maher isn’t a comedian. He’s just some talentless asshole who gets paid to act like a smarmy tool on television. I’m not required to pretend that someone who is still telling Lewinsky jokes in 2008 is funny just because we both realize that starting a war in Iraq wasn’t a good idea.

My beef with Bill Maher isn’t limited to his shockingly stupid and derivative material. I’m also nauseated by his general attitude toward himself and toward other people. He’s clearly vainglorious to a degree that would make any rapper blush, and it couldn’t possibly be less warranted. He’s a short, unfunny half-wit who looks like Spuds Mackenzie with Dan Cortese’s hair. There aren’t a lot of grounds for arrogance there. (I mean, Spuds Mackenzie and Dan Cortese are cool, but Maher somehow finds a way to combine elements of two cool things to make something astoundingly uncool. Think of it like mixing BL Lime and Pinkberry.) I suppose he can be boastful about the fact that he’s got a show on HBO (whatever) and a large collection of sports coats, but Bob Costas can say the same thing and he’s not nearly as arrogant as Maher is.

His demeanor is so repulsive that I can hardly bear to watch his show at all, but when he starts interacting with other people it really comes out, especially if those other people happen to have vaginas. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen Maher look straight through a female guest and dismiss what she’s had to say despite the fact that it was more insightful, informed, and interesting than anything he himself could have come up with. He makes no attempt whatsoever, when discussing women in the news, to disguise his utter disdain for women and their humanity, and he routinely dehumanizes women in his stand-up routines and on his show. He’s constantly harping on and on about the “pussification” of American men, which is what he calls the “trend” toward men treating women like human beings and taking their partners’ feelings into account (if only). And when he’s not complaining that men aren’t all out hanging out at the Playboy mansion while their wives are at home cooking pot roasts and hanging around in Frederick’s of Hollywood gear for their men to come home so they can suck their dicks, he’s making obvious, unclever, derivative, and adolescent “jokes” about sex and the “differences” between men and women. 

So Bill Maher’s an asshole with no talent who gets paid a thousand times more than what he deserves to spread sexism all over our faces. Who cares, right? I care because he’s the world’s number one Liberal Dude and because he’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with the world of comedy.  

Let’s talk about comedy for a minute. I know it doesn’t matter as much as feminism in the grand scheme of things, but my life basically revolves around finding things to laugh about, and the world seems to be conspiring as of late to keep that from happening. It’s now become virtually impossible for me to be entertained in the sense that anyone intended. I suppose that makes me some kind of asshole, but it’s true. I mean, is there on this planet a single comedian that doesn’t spend half his time talking about shitting, his balls, his disgusting attitudes toward sex, and “what’s wrong with women”?  It may be a problem with the audience, but it seems pretty clear that there’s no such thing as a comedian/comedy writer who won’t stoop to that shit in order to get laughs out of the kinds of people who think ranch dressing improves any dish.

I don’t even care as much that those topics are gross or offensive as much as I do that they’re fucking stupid and not funny. Dave Chappelle, who every white dude in the world loves for all the wrong reasons, might be the perfect example of what I’m talking about. He’s a fairly intelligent and liberal dude who has some interesting perspectives on the world, but even he resorts to ball jokes and overt misogyny for half his material. Have you ever seen his special For What It’s Worth? It sucks. He makes about three semi-insightful and quasi-funny comments in a half hour, then spends 30 minutes telling ball jokes that are about as entertaining as getting Rick-rolled. He, David Cross, and Greg Giraldo (both of whom are also gynophobic douchebags) might be the only three semi-funny liberal stand-up comedians alive, and all three of them are guilty of it. There’s no hope.

That could be called a digression, but liberal dudism isn’t a problem that’s limited to the world of comedy.

Liberal Dudes abound. Who are they? Liberal Dudes are guys who will jump up and down to tell you that they’re all about equality and prosperity for everyone, but then tell you about the strip club they were at the night before or about the awesome anal porn site they last jerked off to. Liberal Dudes are ready to welcome us into the boardroom, provided we’re still willing to dance on the conference table at the employee party. Liberal Dudes love “sex-positive” “feminists” because Liberal Dudes support women’s freedom and “rights,” up to and including our “right” to strip and to suck dicks for money. Liberal Dudes love to see women embracing pornorific behavior like pole dancing, pube waxing, porn watching, thong wearing, chick kissing, and boob flashing as a means to “empowerment,” because that’s exactly the kind of power they want us to have: the power to give them boners. Liberal Dudes like to compare themselves favorably to conservatives because conservatives are anti-abortion and want to restrict women’s “freedom” to fuck random Liberal Dudes willy-nilly style. Liberal Dudes, on the other hand, support women’s freedom of sexual expression (as long as our sexual expression looks like a reasonable facsimile of their porn fantasies) and are pro-choice, because being pro-choice means they can pressure women into having abortions when they don’t want to take responsibility for impregnating them.

Liberal Dudes, in short, are willing to give us equal pay, let us have abortions, and let us have half the government jobs, provided that we’re fuckable, we don’t try to make them treat us like we possess the same measure of humanity that they do, and we don’t try to impose any limits on their “right” to use our bodies in person or via video. Sweet deal for us, I know. 

Liberal Dudes like to make a big show of what egalitarians they are by blathering about their support for women’s “rights” and “equality,” but you’ll see just how sincere their concern for women’s issues is when someone brings up date rape (dude, chicks these days are scandalous and get fucked up a lot), when someone points out the pervasiveness of sexual harassment in the workplace (dude, why can’t chicks take a compliment?),  when someone mentions any aspect of the systemic sexism in our culture and social structures (dude, why can’t chicks take a joke?). The gendered insults start flying when anyone suggests to a Liberal Dude that women don’t deserve to get groped, ogled, verbally harassed, date raped, or treated like idiots just because we have vaginas.

Liberal Dudes think they’ve done us a favor by being willing to tolerate our presence in public life. When we ask for any more than that, they think we’re a bunch of ungrateful bitches and start telling us we don’t know how lucky we are, that we’re hysterical, we’re crybabies, we’re weak, blah fucking blah. My personal favorite Liberal Dude line is “You women want equality but then you can’t handle it.” (Maher brought that one up constantly with regard to Hillary Clinton. He claimed she got her chance to run with the big boys and then acted like a pussy when things didn’t go her way. You know, because she faced absolutely no obstacles being the first viable female presidential candidate we’ve ever had.) Is there anything more offensive and obscenely entitled than the attitude these dudes take toward women wanting to be treated like human beings? They basically come right out and say, “We’ve given you a few of the rights and some of the status we have, so shut the fuck up. You’re lucky you even got that. Just think, you could be wearing a burqa.” 

I think I’ll have more to say about that last bit shortly, but for now I’m going to go listen to some Scandal and drink a Zima Gold.

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149 Responses to “Bill Maher’s a liberal. That means he supports your right to suck his dick.”

  1. hellonhairylegs September 20, 2008 at 1:59 AM #

    Dang, that was impressive. I agree about the liberal dudes but thankfully have little knowledge of Bill Maher (just one of the many perks of living in Australia).

    I swear, if I hear one more liberal dude saying they support my right to be a lesbian, then ask if I want to make out with a girl in front of them, I will make sure they never jack off to anything ever again. Assholes.

    • Malcolm, Not Malcolm X, or in the Middle September 30, 2009 at 2:10 AM #

      Great Rant by a gentlemen whose politics I mostly do not agree with. I think Bill Maher is an idiot. He thinks his shit is made of gold, and yours, yes yours, is just plain shit. He fawns over all the blowhards on the left, and thinks that anyone who thinks just a little bit differently than he does is a schmuck. He can blow dead dogs for all I care.

  2. Chai Latte September 20, 2008 at 2:12 AM #

    Thank you!!! You’ve done it again, Nine!

    And for the record, giving a guy a boner is not a ‘power’. It’s not difficult. It’s like they’re telling me that flipping a lightswitch gives me power over electricity. That ain’t it.

    Treatment as a human being. Wish I could find that on Ebay.

  3. panoptical September 20, 2008 at 7:50 AM #

    Bill Maher is way more smug than any human being has the right to be. I can hardly stand watching him. Half the time I don’t even make it through the episode.

    But really, he’s not the only option. Stewart and Colbert are both a thousand times funnier than Maher, and they are clearly both liberal. Olbermann is a good option for news and political discussion – I find his treatment of the antics of the Republican party to have an appropriate mixture of humor and seriousness. As for stand-up… it’s hard to get away from gross-out comedy, but I think Lewis Black, Eddie Izzard, and Brian Regan, for instance, would be a good place to start looking. And don’t forget the classics – a good Richard Pryor routine is going to be cleaner than a modern routine but still brilliantly funny.

    Also, I do have to give Maher credit for giving airtime to people who are way more awesome than he could ever hope to be. Last week’s panel of Salman Rusdie, Janeane Garofalo, and some idiot Republican jerkweed was, well, let’s say it was two-thirds really awesome.

  4. Bill September 20, 2008 at 10:47 AM #

    Question: Who is worse – Bill Maher for being an egotistical asshole who wants to get laid, or Sandra Bernhard for saying that if Sarah Palin came to Manhatten she would be raped by her “Big Black Brothers”?

    Is rape acceptable as a political tool so long as it is a right-wing nut job getting raped?

    Yes, I know it is (supposed to be) humor, but what Sandra said is SO far beyond the line of racism and misogny, how can ANYONE accept, let alone defend it?

    Theory: Sandra Bernhard is a secret McCain supporter. Or just plain stupid and mean spirited!

  5. Rachelle September 20, 2008 at 3:00 PM #

    “Dang, that was impressive.” Exactly.

  6. Nine Deuce September 20, 2008 at 4:01 PM #

    Bill – I vote we kick Sandra out of the club. She’s obnoxious, not funny, and now obviously an asshole.

  7. Nine Deuce September 20, 2008 at 4:04 PM #

    panoptical – I love Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, and I even like Olbermann, although he’s a sexist asshole. As for stand-up, I’m pretty ridiculously picky. I suppose I have absurdly high standards for what’s funny, and most comedians offend me by not being funny way before they even say anything offensive.

  8. Jim September 20, 2008 at 6:23 PM #

    I vote we kick Sandra out of the club.

    Can we kick Margaret Cho out while we’re at it?

  9. Jim September 20, 2008 at 6:25 PM #

    BTW, I’ve been reading Tim Wise a lot lately. He’s all about showing folks what white privilege really means. He’s taught me a lot already – by telling me what I need to hear.

    Now I want to ideologically connect what I’ve learned from Tim with male privilege as well.

    • pbutterfly2000 November 16, 2013 at 5:43 PM #

      I find Tim Wise to be offensive, in that he admits to being in the white privilege club himself, and he speaks to other whites through that privilege. It’s as if he feels he needs to “translate” for them, because he knows his words will carry more meaning for other whites than the words of brown or black people. I also detect in his attitude a lot of condescension and superiority. You simply cannot be white and be an authority on white privilege. It’s like a female fashion model saying, “I know I”m privileged because I’m beautiful. Let’s talk about how we can make the world an easier place for my ugly sisters who were born less fortunate than me. You know, being ugly in this world must be so HARD.” It’s simply in bad taste to be white and to talk about white privilege. You can talk about racism, imperialism, colonialism, capitalism, evil, greed, etc., but talking about privilege is complimenting yourself while discussing these things, and reminding your audience of your superiority when you do so. Only people of color have the right to discuss white privilege. Disgusting.

  10. Nine Deuce September 20, 2008 at 6:33 PM #

    Margaret Cho sucks. She’s not funny. Most female comedians whose audiences are made up primarily of gay men are assholes when it comes to women.

  11. Nine Deuce September 20, 2008 at 7:41 PM #

    Jim – I like what Tim Wise has to say, but I’m not sure I’m with him 100% on being down with SNCC. I can’t help thinking about Stokely Carmichael saying, “The position of women in SNCC is prone.” SNCC was a great organization until guys like him turned it into an asshole party. Being anti-racism is a good thing, but I don’t see why it means we have to condone (or overlook) sexism on the part of black activists. I’m amazed how it often seems that people choose one -ism to oppose and ignore all the others. But I suppose that’s nitpicking. What he has to say is valuable, so I won’t discount it because of something tertiary.

    • cub June 19, 2009 at 7:29 AM #

      re. SNCC therefore, wouldn’t that make tim wise one of the Liberal Dudes? until i see evidence otherwise, he’s right up there with chris rock and his ‘white women’ rant:

      http://snltranscripts.jt.org/06/06orock.phtml

  12. atheist woman September 20, 2008 at 7:45 PM #

    Applause!

    “Margaret Cho sucks. She’s not funny. Most female comedians whose audiences are made up of gay men are assholes when it comes to women.”

    Especially to this. Lard knows why though.

  13. Jenn September 21, 2008 at 12:43 AM #

    Oh, I do love a good rant. You’re good at humor too. I’d suggest stand-up, but I am sure that most of America wouldn’t get it (“hey, is she making fun of me?”).

    Maher is a big douche. It’s sad, really, because I love humor of all kinds. Most of the time, I just can’t bring myself to laugh at those assholes unless I’m wasted. That’s not high praise, because I laugh at people farting when I’m wasted.

  14. crankosaur September 21, 2008 at 12:43 AM #

    “As for stand-up… it’s hard to get away from gross-out comedy, but I think Lewis Black, Eddie Izzard, and Brian Regan, for instance, would be a good place to start looking.”

    I’d cross Lewis Black off that list. On an episode of “Root of All Evil”, he made the analogy that the earth is like that hot girl in high school who thinks she’s better than you because she’s hot until she gets drunk someone rapes her on prom night and she is thus knocked off her pedestal. That leaves about three male comedians who have never made a rape joke, by my count.

  15. Screaming Lemur September 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM #

    WHY do they all go for the rape jokes? I swear to Ceiling Cat, they canNOT stay away. Some part of them thinks it’s okay cause it gets a laugh from the douchebag part of the audience.
    Also, I usually like Margaret Cho but her stand-up has gotten too preachy to be funny. I love stand-up that says something, but she’s not making jokes, she’s lecturing half the time, and to a generally-progressive audience. Choir, anyone?
    …That said, that Palin post on her blog just made me headdesk. Come on, Margaret! Try and figure out why that ain’t cool, okay?

  16. isme September 21, 2008 at 6:23 AM #

    “WHY do they all go for the rape jokes? I swear to Ceiling Cat, they canNOT stay away. Some part of them thinks it’s okay cause it gets a laugh from the douchebag part of the audience.”

    Well, that would be why. Always need something to fall back on. As long as people are laughing, they’re winning.

    Alternatively, it’s because women being raped is funny. I mean, if rape was a horrible, fundamentally unfunny thing, then all those other male comedians wouldn’t be making jokes about it, would they? So it’s obviously ok.

  17. syndicalist702 September 21, 2008 at 8:22 AM #

    crankosaur – definitely Eddie Izzard. Of course, there’s the sticker I have on my car:

    In case 92 doesn’t allow pics, it says “I poke badgers with spoons.”

  18. atheist woman September 21, 2008 at 9:26 PM #

    What frightens me is when everyone laughs at rape jokes

  19. isme September 22, 2008 at 3:54 AM #

    Well…”society” laughs at alot of jokes about things that aren’t funny. We all know what the last thing that went through Princess Diana’s head before she died was, after all. We’ve all heard the one about Hitler planning to kill 12 million jews and 4 ballerinas. Don’t forget “dead baby” humour as well.

    Alot of people find these jokes funny.

  20. bonobobabe September 22, 2008 at 2:23 PM #

    I think stand-up comedy had its hey-day in the 80’s, and it has been steadily going downhill ever since.

    I remember watching a stand-up routine from someone who was hysterically funny. He was doing a riff on Qaddafi and a bunch of other shit. My mom and I laughed so hard, we almost passed out from lack of oxygen.

    The worst part is, I can’t remember the guy’s name!

    Some comedians take it up a notch from simply spouting sexist shit. This happened earlier this year. I dunno if you heard about it. An English comedian sexually assaulted a woman on stage:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/01/johnny-vegas-allegedly-se_n_99740.html

  21. buggle September 22, 2008 at 2:31 PM #

    Well said! I really can’t stand Bill Maher. He is just a jerk, plain and simple. Blah!

    I think Margaret Cho is pretty funny, a lot of times. I think she’s pretty clueless about a lot of stuff though, too. And she takes way too long to tell a joke onstage!!!

  22. atheist woman September 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM #

    “We all know what the last thing that went through Princess Diana’s head before she died was, after all. We’ve all heard the one about Hitler planning to kill 12 million jews and 4 ballerinas. Don’t forget “dead baby” humour as well.”

    I suppose I am one of the lucky few not included in ‘we’.

    Although as an atheist I totally eat babies. Ten a day. Like the witch in Hansel and Gretel. :).

  23. Gare September 23, 2008 at 4:04 PM #

    I guess I might be the case of the regular person who wandered into an eternal war. I am totally dissilusioned. I am narcisstic enough to keep posting. On a ‘radical’ board. Knowing fully the ‘radicals’ are partaking in every pleasure the system they would overthrow has to offer. In fact I bet that if, like us real people who use our real names (nine deuce doesnt care, she will remain nice deuce, probably, because her students, or whoever, might question her authenticity, or transparency, neither of which is a concern for ‘radical bloggers’)

    I am just disinterested in gender wars in general. Gender isnt even a real distinction anymore. If you want to waste your friggin life with boy/girl bs, you will waster your life. have at it.

    Radical .. and other.. feminists have succeeded at this point only at creating a sub culture. They rail against media creations. While most of America never heard of them. They magnify abortion and rape, while you may as well magnify any other seemy side that will always exist. They kid themselves that human nature will change.

    I live in a world where women and men call the shots. Equal will never be definable. But to even spend an hour of your time on this earth arguing for one gender over another, you could perhaps expend that energy better on your own relationships.

    I read on some blog somewhere ND is dating a guy with a daughter. She shrouds in secrecy here, yet is transparent elsewhere? what does that tell us. that BLOGS are dishonest instruments to spout agendas, not personal feelings.

    I dont know why i havent been banned by ND. probably because Im older than her father.. gare

  24. Nine Deuce September 23, 2008 at 5:05 PM #

    Nothing is shrouded in secrecy here, gare. You don’t have to be an irresponsible idiot to be radical, you know. I may think our social system needs some serious reform, but that doesn’t mean I want to duck out of it and join a commune or something. As fucked as our cultural values are, I don’t dispute the value of learning and knowledge. Hence I go to school and plan to become a teacher. Because this blog delves into some controversial matter, and because I want to be free to express myself as I see fit, I choose not to use my real name. Also, I’d rather not give out my personal info to the many assholes who send me e-mails telling me they want to rape and kill me. Call me paranoid, call me a poser, whatever. I don’t give a shit. The point is to get my views out in the open for people to read and consider, but I don’t need every psycho who comes across my blog knowing my name and where I live and go to school.

    My dad is 67 and I doubt you’re older than that. Didn’t you say you listen to Sabbath? No way someone over 67 does that. But that is neither here nor there. I don’t choose not to ban someone because I have respect for age or anything else. If my dad showed up on this blog and wrote ridiculous comments, I’d ban him. If the Dalai Lama did so, he’d be out. I don’t do hierarchies, which means no one gets a pass due to age, gender, or social status. You haven’t been banned because I try to be charitable with people. As off point as some of your comments are, you sometimes seem to want to know what we have to say here, so I don’t ban you. In fact, I only ban the most egregious of assholes.

  25. Genevieve September 24, 2008 at 5:30 AM #

    I’d cross Lewis Black off that list. On an episode of “Root of All Evil”, he made the analogy that the earth is like that hot girl in high school who thinks she’s better than you because she’s hot until she gets drunk someone rapes her on prom night and she is thus knocked off her pedestal. That leaves about three male comedians who have never made a rape joke, by my count.

    Oh, fuck it. I thought I liked that guy, too. Never watched Root of All Evil mainly because I thought it would be taking Lewis Black down a notch, that the concept was undeserving of him. So I’m glad I didn’t see this particular episode, but here I’ve been thinking he’s generally a good guy…when he’s obviously not, if he’s thinking those things.

  26. Bill September 24, 2008 at 8:06 PM #

    Another member of the disgusting worthless “but I’m on their side” club: Lisa Lampanelli

    Her act is nothing but racism, misogyny, and homophobia in extreme, but somehow, the fact that she “bangs the blacks” makes it all right to insult them in the most vile ways.

    Supposedly, her routine is supposed to attack prejudice, but no, it doesn’t.

  27. B September 25, 2008 at 3:43 AM #

    Gare, are you male?

    Because if you are, it’s because of privilege that you think gender “isn’t even a real distinction anymore.” That’s pretty much the root of what privilege is, actually — you’re assumed to be the default, so your gender, race, ability, etc. is nearly completely irrelevant to your identity.

    Women have to worry about getting raped, get harassed on the street and in the office, have to deal with all kinds of double standards and binaries (virgin/whore, wimpy crybaby/bitch, ugly and unwanted/exclusively a sex object, bad mother/bad career woman, etc), their personal decisions are constantly scrutinized (with regards to sexuality, partner choices, motherhood, abortion, careers, etc), there’s a strong lobby to force them into pregnancy and to deny them all forms of birth control, they make less than men for the same jobs (STILL!), women make up a very small percentage of upper-level management in business (STILL!), women make up a very small percentage of government officials (STILL!), women’s issues are considered non-standard and are shunted into women’s studies departments rather than being incorporated into the core curriculum, women’s rights are not usually considered under the category of human rights, the major Western religions exclude women from a number of authority roles, and on and on and on and on. I mean, really, do you read this blog?

    You don’t know or don’t understand this because you don’t have to. Lucky for you, but it doesn’t mean feminists are getting worked up over nothing.

  28. wiggles September 26, 2008 at 3:55 AM #

    Keith Olbermann isn’t a sexist asshole. He’s a violently misogynist asshole. He’s also a boring bag of verbal flatulence who’s as frequently right about U.S. politics as a broken clock is right about the time of day.

    And yeah, Bill Maher is a self-important douche who sucks beyond comprehension.

  29. panoptical September 27, 2008 at 5:46 AM #

    Tonight Ralph Nader called Bill Maher out on his sexism after Maher called Sarah Palin a bimbo. Nader made some good points, but as usual nothing made it through Maher’s bubble of self-satisfied arrogance.

    And, incidentally, Maher also made a joke about the strip club he was in last night.

  30. Dudikoff September 29, 2008 at 2:24 AM #

    Cheers to Nader for having the courage to point that out to him. He made a very cruel joke towards women that basically insinuated that attractive models are superior to the general population of women because they’re more beautiful.

    I’m so sick of that guy. Not only is he sexist, he thinks anyone who hasn’t had the opportunity to a higher education is worthless. He frequently insults working class Americans on his show to show how sophisticated he is.

  31. gwytherinn October 1, 2008 at 2:54 AM #

    “Liberal Dudes are guys who will jump up and down to tell you that they’re all about equality and prosperity for everyone, but then tell you about the strip club they were at the night before”

    THIS!!! My experience with liberal men in a nutshell.

    Loved this post! I’ve beyond had it with them. Couldn’t have found this at a better time.

  32. Konservo October 1, 2008 at 3:45 PM #

    It’s sad how the word ‘Liberal,’ which used to denote an ideology of individual freedom, is now supposed to mean something like “equality and prosperity for all.” Leftists have commandeered the appellation of their political opponents (not conservatives, rather their other political opponents, i.e. Liberals) and now the word has taken on a new, disgraceful, meaning. While there are some commonalities that span the political spectrum, true Liberalism has as much to do with the Right as it does with the Left. There’s no such thing as “Liberal” “party unity.”

    Liberals believe that discrimination based on sex and/or race is wrong, but they don’t believe that the world will be a better place once we are sufficiently “diversified.” Liberals believe that you have the freedom to do what you please but along with that comes the responsibility to treat others with respect. This means owning not only your achievements but your failures as well. While others are certainly sexist and racist, a true Liberal knows that it’s much worse to do wrong than to be wronged. Therefore, sexists/racist/ and other assorted bigots can not, by definition, be Liberal.

    That said, it’s next to impossible to be clear in conversation when you don’t use the term “Liberal” as a synonym for Democrat or Leftist. This is disappointing and a perversion of the true Liberal ideology which makes the United States of America the best nation to ever grace the face of the Earth.

  33. Anna Belle October 10, 2008 at 3:24 AM #

    Wow. Just wow. Got sent here via the Reclusive Leftist and am so glad I did. That was rapturous. Adding you to my blogroll now!

  34. bluelyon October 12, 2008 at 4:07 PM #

    And I just made the jump based on Anna Belle’s rec. Your post says it all. Too bad the Liberal Dudes will not get it and will throw their hands up, eyes open wide and cry, “Not me!!!”

    I, too, cannot abide Bill Maher. Husband cannot understand, At All, why I no longer can watch Olbermann, Maher, listen to Air America, yada yada.

    Once your eyes have been opened…

  35. wiggles October 13, 2008 at 7:50 AM #

    Lisa Lampanelli

    Her act is nothing but racism, misogyny, and homophobia in extreme, but somehow, the fact that she “bangs the blacks” makes it all right to insult them in the most vile ways.

    Could she please stop patting herself on the back for finding black guys attractive?
    I remember a “joke” she once made, long before anyone ever heard of Sarah Palin, how thrilled she’d be to be gang-raped by a bunch of black guys.
    What is it with comedians like Bernhard and Lampinelli who like to get real preachy about racial equality and then turn around and associate gang rape with black men? I’d love to see them kicked out of the anti-racism club as well as the feminism club for being full of crap on both counts.

  36. beylita October 27, 2008 at 1:16 AM #

    You had me, but you lost me with the comment about Clinton being the first chance at a viable female presidential candidate.

    Bush may be the prez, but I voted for Shirley Chisolm.

  37. Nine Deuce October 27, 2008 at 1:23 AM #

    I only meant that she had gained a large amount of popular support and many people believed she would win if she got the nomination. I am a very big fan of Shirley Chisholm.

  38. sound of sound December 1, 2008 at 3:15 AM #

    When we ask for any more than that, they think we’re a bunch of ungrateful bitches and start telling us we don’t know how lucky we are, that we’re hysterical, we’re crybabies, we’re weak, blah fucking blah.

    YES. And then they’ll be all like, “well, you’d better side with me (and suck my dick afterward) because those conservative men will treat you even worse!” Like, dude, are you seriously patting yourself on the back for being a better person than Rush Limbaugh? I mean, REALLY, that’s what you aspire to? Better than that cretin? There are carjackers and bank robbers in this world who are way better people than Rush Limbaugh. Get some standards already.

    My other personal favorite is when they use Roe v. Wade as a bat to smack us over the head with. They’re all like, “if you don’t support our latest white male candidate who wants to make it legal to grope your boobies, then a conservative might get it who would help REPEAL Roe! And then you’ll be so fucked, it’ll be like you’re getting raped! Haha, did you hear that? I said ‘rape.’ Me so funny!” And then they wonder why we don’t welcome them as liberators with blow jobs and home-baked apple pies.

  39. lynx December 13, 2008 at 7:44 AM #

    i’m adding a link to your blog from my website. great article!

  40. nayo December 17, 2008 at 7:13 AM #

    Your post about Bill Maher was dead on. I feel brought back to life just reading your thoughts and all the comments. Hard to find these conversations in my own life. Glad you are here.

  41. saltyC February 11, 2009 at 6:11 PM #

    Just want to meddle on a point about liberal dudes’ support for abortion rights. The ones I’ve known are for it in the legal sense, but still think you should feel bad for having one, like for instance the guy involved in my ill-timed pregnancy told me “If I were you I’d do the selfish thing and abort.”

    I’ve seen Jon Stewart fit this mold to a ‘T’, telling republicans he can understand their opposition to abortion rights but not their opposition to gay marriage, because “gays are someone’s children” Well guess what Jon, women who have abortions are someone’s children too, dick.

    • cub June 19, 2009 at 8:37 AM #

      amen, saltyC–
      have dated similar Dude, and you have my sympathy.

      stewart promised long ago that he would hold the next (presumably democrat) president’s feet to the fire, as in ‘equal treatment’– i’m still waiting…
      maybe he just assumed he’d get to roast hillary; i guess i should feel sorry for him, because now all he has is material on how much he wants to have a micro-brew* with barack.

      *would have gone blue there, but didn’t want poss. homophobic faux pas to detract from my point: jon stewart is a philistine, a hypocrite, and a lying liar who lies. i wish to slut-shame him for being a suck-up. good godzilla! the emperor has no clothes! who farted!? — just another good ol’ boy POTUS with 99 problems, that’s who. he’s got 99 problems, but stewart ain’t one; he’s got 99 problems, but colbert ain’t one…

  42. kendallmck March 11, 2009 at 7:53 PM #

    It may be a problem with the audience, but it seems pretty clear that there’s no such thing as a comedian/comedy writer who won’t stoop to that shit in order to get laughs out of the kinds of people who think ranch dressing improves any dish.

    Brilliant. I wrote something similar (albeit not as good) http://kendallmck.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/file-under-why-am-i-surprised/

    But, wait a minute. David Cross is a gynophobe? I feel like I have a pretty good ear for this shit, and I’ve never heard him say anything that strikes me as glaringly sexist – and I’m seriously such a nerd over him that I listen to all his standup (plus bootlegged material) on a constant basis. In fact, he’s the only male comedian I’ve ever heard use the term “women’s rights” in a non-joke/insulting way, as in “Bush is doing all these shitty things to roll back civil rights, women’s rights, etc.”

    I’m almost scared to ask you this because I don’t want to stop loving him like a family member, but…what did he do? Please tell me what you obviously know that I don’t, even if it will break my heart.

    • Nine Deuce March 11, 2009 at 10:17 PM #

      Let’s just say that his attitude toward women in his personal life is gross. It’s not as if I expect anyone with a smidgen of fame not to start making use of that fame to use women like objects, but it’s still kind of disappointing (I, too, am into his stand-up, though my estimation of his genius has dropped since I found out he’s still a Liberal Dude). I’m sure he’s down with “women’s rights” as far as abortion and equal pay go, but I’m not sure he thinks it’s our “right” to have our worth as human beings determined by something beyond who wants to pork us. He’s a third-waver, basically, which I think means he’s all about Riot Grrrls who like to huff dong. He might even object to objectification (and alliteration), but it doesn’t translate to his own personal behavior. Oh, and he likes some really lame bands. I just realized that if even David Cross can’t get a pass, people might start accusing me of hating men. Oh, wait.

      • kendallmck March 12, 2009 at 1:59 PM #

        I totally believe you. God, it’s such a shame where they don’t put their dick where their mouth is.

        That being said, if you fucked him, I’m really, really jealous. He may be a piece of shit, but I’d still hit it.

        “Huff dong” is genius and I’d probably be unable to keep myself from using that phrase everyday even if I tried.

        • Nine Deuce March 12, 2009 at 2:16 PM #

          I’m not into bald guys. I just know that via some personal gossip among people I know in Atlanta.

          (Ha! Does that sound like I’m bragging because I know people in Atlanta? I think I’ve just stumbled upon some new material!)

          If he put his dick where his mouth is, would he be blowing himself?

          I’m a big fan of “huff dong.” It makes an excellent song-lyric replacement. Think of that song “Headstrong” that people who are into UFC seem to like so much.

  43. Inari April 2, 2009 at 9:13 PM #

    Thank you. I keep thanking people for saying the challenging things that need to be said, and I don’t mean to sound trite. But, as someone who considers himself pretty radical in some dimensions, I know that I need to be challenged on those and others. What I’m saying is that males need help. It is easy to get sucked into liberal dudeness, when you’re always surrounded by it. So thank you for being a challenging voice and reminding us how uncool it is.

    Because honestly, and I’m sure you know it, it’s hard to undo all the things you’ve been trained to like, and it hard to deconstruct all the constructions you’ve been encouraged to make on the hardware you’ve got, when society wants you not to so badly.

    I’m not the only person that should be thanking you, but I don’t think I can speak for them so…

  44. liberal-conservative-moderateism-ism September 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM #

    I just happened across this site while looking up “Bill Maher sucks” on google. Man, if I met more actual liberals like you, I think I would be liberal myself. I couldn’t even tell you what I am, besides that I’m male. Seriously, the hypocrisy among “Liberal Dudes” is what makes me hate this crock they call being liberal and a democrat and so forth. Now, conservatives and republicans are obviously another issue altogether, but for the sake of this article I’m only talking about liberal dudes. these assholes all around me at college want you to sign up for their “democrat club” where the poster says “F**k yeah I voted for Obama!” and I get to hear them talk about how hot this chick is, and “dude, I think she’s a lesbian. sweet! I can’t wait to watch Jon Stewart tonight.” ugh. it seems like the new pickup line for males is “I voted for Obama. Wanna ****?” who the hell cares. instead of trying to get some head, try to actually stop being a self-serving asshole acting like you care about women’s rights when, indeed, you just want to be able to have an abortion to escape responsibility. I’m telling you, being around backwoods redneck morons and liberal dude morons, the only real difference is McCain/Obama. Other than that, they enjoy getting hammered and gawking at women making disgusting jokes. now why can’t real liberals and conservatives just put an end to that shit and have actual discussions about things that really matter?

    • Nine Deuce September 17, 2009 at 5:52 AM #

      I think it’s because the trifecta of sexism, beer, and stupidity is the great unifier among men the world over.

  45. Imaginary September 28, 2009 at 1:30 AM #

    Oh my, how I agree with you. I hate that almost all the comedians out there are all about degrading sex. Can we launch them into the sun pleeeease?

    One comedian I do like is Dylan Moran. He’s really funny, and although I’ve only seen a bit of his material (the Like, Totally special), he seems to respect womin a lot. Even though he doesn’t like vegetarians. And Black Books is a good show he was in.

    I also like Sarah Silverman. I don’t find her particularly funny, but I do like that she makes fun of people’s misogyny and racism.

    Bill What’s-his-face is a douche. He’s not funny, and he’s just fucking laaaame. Not like hit by a bus lame, where I can actually get pissed off about it, but like stepping in a dried up stain of urine that makes me paranoid that I have piss all over my shoe kind of lame. Fucking hate him. But I think the reason people watch his stuff is because we’re told over and over by the press how bloody funny he is when in reality he’s an ugly boring sod. I should pee on his shoe.

  46. NM October 8, 2009 at 8:24 PM #

    I think I’m in love with 9/2….Is my name too offensive?

    • Nine Deuce October 8, 2009 at 8:25 PM #

      Yes, so I’ve edited it.

    • Nine Deuce October 8, 2009 at 8:37 PM #

      A word of warning: if you want to comment here, quit saying offensive, sexist shit. And use a different screen name. I don’t have time to edit it every time.

      • Dougal October 8, 2009 at 8:43 PM #

        Thanks, I’ve come up with a different name….Sorry the other one appears elsewhere, but I’ve posted a couple times before reading your reply.

        • Nine Deuce October 8, 2009 at 8:44 PM #

          I deleted those other comments because you were making sexist insults.

          • Dougal October 8, 2009 at 8:46 PM #

            No worries…I forgot what they were already, which, I guess, shows have far have to go….

  47. Nine Deuce October 8, 2009 at 9:21 PM #

    I think you’re in the wrong place, dude. I’m a radical feminist, not a conservative who hates Bill Maher because he’s a liberal. I’m way more left-wing than he is, and I don’t like him because he’s not left-wing enough, not because he’s too left-wing. He’s supposed to be a liberal, but he’s a misogynist, just like conservatives. If you are a conservative and like this page just because I don’t like Maher, you clearly can’t read.

    • Dougal October 8, 2009 at 9:27 PM #

      Your premise is off. I am a staunch conservative and know exactly where I am. I am not looking for atta-boys here, 9/2, just some good discussion seasoned with a bit of grievance airing.

      A little banter back and forth with opposing views is a good thing. Now, my attack on Maher and his sycophantic audience is just a sample. Your idea that conservatives are misogynists is a sweeping generalization. I thought you’d be more careful.

      • Nine Deuce October 8, 2009 at 9:32 PM #

        Are you opposed to abortion rights? Are you opposed to an Equal Rights Amendment? How do you feel about government programs that help poor women and children with health care, food, etc.? You’ve already made a lot of sexist comments that I’ve had to delete (see the rules), so I wonder about that misogyny thing. There may be a conservative somewhere that isn’t a misogynist, but I’ve yet to meet him/her (yes, women can be misogynists, just look at Phyllis Schlafly).

  48. Dougal October 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM #

    Wait a minute. I’m getting my threads confused. I’m going home to sleep it off. I’ll return tomorrow with a gps to help me navigate through the blog. Sheesh!

  49. cubanoafuego November 3, 2009 at 4:42 PM #

    lol, wow I hate Bill Maher too, but I think you might have beat me in hating him here. I remember one of the things which annoyed me most out of just about anything I’ve ever seen on feministing was a post by someone asking if anyone knew of any others like Maher, because they agreed with him on ‘most social & political issues’…. & then they wondered, in the same post, why Bill was sometimes just a bit, you know….. sexist? Ugh, the stupidity of some people.

  50. Imaginary November 10, 2009 at 8:52 AM #

    Slightly related, 9/2, have you ever seen Penn and Teller’s: Bullshit? It’s possibly the most arrogant show I’ve ever watched. I literally drained the house of bleach because of all the bottles I poured into my eyes, that’s how bad and fucking annoying those dicks are.

    Oh, and you’re awesome. I love you, have a hug with sprinkles :).

    • isme November 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM #

      Well, except when they happen to be attacking something you personally disagree with.

      What really annoys me is people that tell me to go watch that show, so I’ll understand why something they were complaining about is wrong. Because if a mime and a comedian don’t like something, it must be wrong.

  51. marzpan January 24, 2010 at 4:21 AM #

    Oh this is so true! I actually get angrier at liberal dudes than conservative dudes, because they’re the ones who are acting smug and superior and above it all while being just as sexist and condescending as conservative dudes.

  52. DawnAllen February 15, 2010 at 2:37 AM #

    Hey I watch Rachel Maddow as she skewers male homophobes! So much more funny to me, and good old Kate Clinton. I don’t watch the guys anymore, they aren’t funny. Why bother?
    But great rant love it love it and more loved it!

  53. Hecate February 28, 2010 at 10:02 AM #

    So very true. I’m not one to be grateful for crumbs either, but unfortunately there are so many women who are. I definitely agree that so-called ‘Liberal’ men can be very condescending indeed. I once had a guy friend (who is clearly no longer my friend) say that he thought the best client a prostitute could ever have would be a Liberal. Uh, yeah… sure buddy.

  54. Immir March 3, 2010 at 6:57 AM #

    Rightchous :)

    I’ve been saying for ages to guys who think they’re all cool because they smoke weed and they’re non-conformists etc that, if you’re into objectifying women, you are conforming.

    You’re doning what you’re told to do by men who wnat to make money off you! If you’re into porn you’re not a rebel! You are a part of the mooing masses!

  55. Late2theparty March 3, 2010 at 11:45 AM #

    First, I would just like to say that I respect your intelligence and your opinions very much. Any person considering these issues and the current state of the world are doing just fine in my book.

    I would like to make a few suggestions (at the risk of being another man who knows less than you do but wants to add his two cents, as you described so well)

    Resist being divided by the gender gap. I have great respect for your desire to end oppression and abuse, and make things more level, etc… but

    Have you ever considered that you have a bigger enemy than men, liberals, conservatives, or any other definable group?

    If you can keep in an open mind about this (admitting one may not understand history as previously thought can be difficult, especially someone of your intelligence), check out this guy.

    Yuri Bezmenov. Watch his lecture.

    Humble suggestion. Nice post.

  56. Immir March 4, 2010 at 7:10 AM #

    Wow, my spelling in my above post SUCKED.

    Late2theparty: “Resist being divided by the gender gap.”

    ? Women didn’t do any dividing. They are noticing it, though.

    *Checks spelling*

  57. bassface May 10, 2010 at 9:17 AM #

    I’m from England, so I haven’t had the displeasure of being subjected to Bill Maher, but from what I can hear, he sounds like a misogynistic arsewipe who thinks it’s funny to put women down. He’s just appealing to his audience of rock brained males, who share equally fuckwitted views and that really pisses me off, comediens should be witty, not crude. On a similar, a comedienne who actually is funny is Jo Brand. Not sure if you’ve seen her yet, but she’s brilliant.

  58. wiggles May 10, 2010 at 1:11 PM #

    So you know Maher’s all into denouncing organized religion and has gotten increasingly vocal about it in recent years. The thing is though, you can’t denounce religion, or do research for your little documentary film on everything that’s wrong with religion, which I happened to catch on basic cable, without noticing a whole lot of fucked up religion-based mandates on how women should be treated. So I watched his most recent stand-up show, “But I’m Not Wrong” (without contributing to Maher’s royalties or ratings because I’m really pissed off at him for a lot of shit) and he seemed to be getting a little bit of a clue, but not quite really. He didn’t spend the entire act bashing women, and actually called out some actual misogyny couple times, but he hasn’t quite let go of his ‘lazy sluts gettin’ over’ worldview. So that was kind of interesting.

    bassface – He’s not at total meatball like Dane Cook or Ralphie May or something. He’s got a brain in there somewhere but, like a lot of otherwise socially and politically conscious liberal dudes, when it comes to his attitudes toward women, there’s just no critical thinking going on. He can’t be sexist because he’s liberal, no matter what kind of nasty misogynist shit falls out of his face hole.

    You know who’s even worse on all these fronts though? Way worse? Bill Burr. Sweet Jesus I detest that motherfucker.

  59. Miss Andrist May 10, 2010 at 10:42 PM #

    Late2theparty:

    Hi there. Normally, the content of your contribution would be sufficiently objectionable that if I bothered to respond it would be to lay out the proscribed dose of harsh on it. I do this primarily for the benefit of the womanity here, myself included. Kind of like Alka-Seltzer: neutralize corrosive substance before it inflicts injury.

    But I won’t. Partly because you know what? You sound like you’re sort of trying. So here’s a token valued at the benefit of one (1) doubt: don’t spend it all in once place. First, here’s what you did right: you kicked off telling us that we’re wrong by acknowledging that we have stuff like intelligence and opinions. Classy! I wish I was kidding but that’s uncommon enough to bear mentioning.

    “I would like to make a few suggestions (at the risk of being another man who knows less than you do but wants to add his two cents, as you described so well)”

    Your sense of risk was accurate: yes, you are another man who knows less than we do about any and everything we’re up against but is going to mansplain it all, so we can understand how we’ve had it all wrong all along. I don’t believe you consciously realized that your post’s purpose is to get us to stop making this about us, and start making it about “everybody.” Aka, men.

    *sigh* Dude, I sincerely wonder (and if you show me the dignity of a response to this question I’ll give you a gold star and move you to the front of the class) if you really truly honestly think your ‘suggestion’ is actually unique. I would like to know if you really didn’t consider that maybe we’ve heard that exact ‘suggestion’ from men before. Do you really think men EVER let us just sit here in our little corner of the internet and talk about something other than men? Dude, you will be hard-pressed to find a post on this blog without male commentary interjection. And your ‘suggestion’ is among the most common criticism of us and what we are doing here: men object to women trying to think about women. A lot. Some try to be polite without realizing how arrogant and condescending and insulting and retarded they’re being; I swear, 9/2 publishes them simply you are your own proof that you are doing what we say you’re doing. Just check out yourself. Doing it. Others are less reserved in their misogyny and gynophobia, and we get death threats from men who refuse to admit that we have the right to be, to speak, to speak to one another, and to speak about whatever we want without male permission, approval, or participation. This idea really bugs men. Ask me why.

    Why, you say? Glad you asked.

    Because the patriarchy’s phallocracy is based on the faulty belief that the universe is a strictly zero-sum equation. I wish I could presume that if you’re telling US what to read to correct our wrongheadedness, you’d be at least vaguely familiar with our long-stated positions. That means you’d know what zero-sum is, without me having to bear the burden of nurturing and educating yet another man, who introduced himself with a show of cavalier disrespect for the rather impressive body of dialogue we’ve established here. But everybody here knows the odds of that are far slimmer than the odds that you, yet another man, would barge in yet again and tell us which way the wind blows, yet again, somehow maintaining to all appearances embarrassing ignorance and the genuine belief that you are introducing something new, unique, that we of course have not already heard / thought of, let alone smacked down many times over.

    Zero-sum means one can only gain when the other loses. The patriarchy maintains that anything that isn’t ABOUT MEN must therefore be AGAINST MEN. So men infinitely come barging in here blathering on about how WE are being divisive. No, men are the problem. Here’s a freebie: you will find the concept that men, and men alone, are the problem and are solely responsible for women’s oppression treated as established fact here.

    Why? Because it’s true. Furthermore, you will certainly be surprised to discover rather unanimous support for men to rescind sex-based division. We’d love it if men would stop treating us like things and start treating us like human beings. If some of us are a bit jaded, it very well may be because we’ve been raped one too many times to believe that men will ever stop doing what they’ve always done. How many times does a person have to be raped, beaten, terrorized, made to fear for themselves and others before they are allowed to quit giving a shit about the terrorists’ feelings and just run for their lives?

    That is where we are.

    Many of us no longer give two shits. We’re not actually obligated to give ANY shits, mind you – this is an entitlement that men expect women to fulfill. We are not bad for refusing to relinquish any more of our energy nurturing the people who hurt us very deliberately, who collude to harm us. If we don’t seem to care much about cooperating with men, it’s probably because men have shown each and every one of us that men are more than happy to “cooperate” us right into our graves.

    We’re not working AGAINST men, we’re not describing any harm or infringement of the human rights of males. However, we’ll defend the rights of men when men need us to. We are concerned with ourselves because we are oppressed by men, because we are women and men have shown us, individually and as a class, with a body of work six thousand years long, that they hate us beyond any ability of ours to reason with them. Their hatred for each and every one of us is limitless. The disrespect you have shown us with your ‘suggestion’ that completely disregards – oh Jesus fuck, EVERYTHING WE HAVE SAID EVER – proves yet again that you, a man, are fundamentally incapable of considering that maybe – MAYBE WE ARE RIGHT.

    How many women have to be raped by men, murdered and dismembered by men, beaten and exploited by men, terrorized such that half the population of the world lives in fear of the other half – before you will consider that maybe, just maybe, WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

    Answer: infinity. You will never permit the possibility that we are not the problem, that the victim cannot be blamed for the injury they suffer unless you feel the victim is you. The patriarchy rewards you too richly with our subjugation and besides, it’s really hard to consider that maybe you aren’t as nice a guy as you’d like to think.

    This is Derailing for Dummies.

    http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/

    No, the problem – the Gospel According to Menz (courtesy, you) is that we are ignorant. We will have difficulty admitting we are wrong – how gracious of you. Admitting that one’s grasp of history is bigoted is difficult to become aware of, especially when that bigoted selective spin so thoroughly and conveniently supports your urge to excuse men from responsibility for men’s actions against women.

    Mary Wollenstonecraft, in her treatise “Vindication of the Rights of Woman,” ventured to suggest that the problem with women was men’s refusal to admit that women might be human beings rather than any actual deficiency of non-males. Of course, your supreme mastery of historical truthz implies you already know that as of 1798, men had conclusively proven that women are simply fundamentally inferior in intellect and of weak constitutions, suitable only for being servants to men as women are incapable of achieving literacy and intellectual, physical and spiritual pursuits of any sort are actually ridiculous. And as we can all see, men still think that women are too stupid to know what reality is.

    Yeah, that’s a good start – then maybe you should move onto Andrea Dworkin’s “I Want A 24-Hour Truce In Which There Is No Rape.” But you won’t, because you’re Teh Menz, and the issue is already concluded as you’ve given us The Correct Answer.

    Gawd.

    HI LARIOUS. Another male just asked me if you were my boyfriend. I WISH I WAS KIDDING. I told him I’d rather smash a waterglass and eat the pieces.

    -Miss Andrist
    Lover of Men

  60. lizor May 11, 2010 at 9:52 AM #

    Oh Miss A, You are truly a kind, generous, patient person.

    Great post. Thanks.

  61. sneeky bunny May 11, 2010 at 9:02 PM #

    I second that emotion Lizor. That was a truly great post.

  62. Alina May 14, 2010 at 2:36 PM #

    Nine Deuce
    September 20, 2008 at 4:04 PM
    panoptical – I love Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, and I even like Olbermann, although he’s a sexist asshole. As for stand-up, I’m pretty ridiculously picky. I suppose I have absurdly high standards for what’s funny, and most comedians offend me by not being funny way before they even say anything offensive.

    Try Jimmy Carr he is an english stand up comedian.Also you prob now him anyways Zach Galiafanakis.

  63. joy May 15, 2010 at 7:11 AM #

    “Zach Galiafanakis.”

    Oh god, what a sexist asshole. Of course.

    Fuck stand-up comedy altogether, if you ask me. The common audience thinks racism and sexism is hee-fucking-larious and thus that is what most stand-up comedy is.

    Along the lines of your “women making sitcoms” post, ND, let’s just get more female comics. Hell, let’s find something more agreeable to do than go listen to white guys orate at length about shit that isn’t even mildly amusing.

  64. GraceMargaret May 18, 2010 at 7:03 PM #

    My sister’s brush with greatness: she was at Jerry’s Deli in L.A. and Bill Maher was at a table nearby. He kept trying to flirt with her and asked for her number eventually before leaving. She was completely grossed out and told him, no but thanks for asking!
    She said he acted like he expected her to be absolutely beside herself in complete awe at his Bill Maher-ness and his famous-ness.

  65. OrangeCanine May 20, 2010 at 1:16 AM #

    joy-“Hell, let’s find something more agreeable to do than go listen to white guys orate at length about shit that isn’t even mildly amusing.”

    My exact opinion of cable television. You have provided me with much joy.

  66. joy May 21, 2010 at 3:57 PM #

    Hi, OrangeCanine! Glad to be of help. I say my mother had a sense of irony in naming me (my first name really is Joy), but I do what I can as well.

    All media is just white dudes wanking to images of themselves and of what they want.

    Sometimes, and feel free to call me out on this, it’s brown dudes’ images of THEMselves, but rarely, and it’s typically just images of brown dudes that brown dudes have been taught (either via brainwashing, like women who support the P have been brainwashed, or via overcompensation for relentless oppression) by white men that they want to see.
    I draw this conclusion because one rarely if ever sees, for example, a dark brown dude wearing natural hair and being nice to people in the media. Here in NYC, we do have a subway advert of a medium brown dude in an afro being nice to a child, but it’s a white child, and thus I feel this ad is also made to make white people feel better. ie, “Potentially scary-looking person being nice to the colonizers’ offspring = we let him live!”

    Ugh. Clearly it is more complicated than I can write here. But, it boils down to — white dudes want to see themselves reflected positively. They want a white dude to win at the end.

    So brown people are all either thuggish, conniving, ruthless, wannabe white people (ie, “oh, if I heard them on the phone I’d never know they were [PoC]!”, gag) or stereotypically sidekicky;

    queers are all either over-the-top out-and-loud or strangely fetishized or tokenized;

    old people, disabled people, and children are all either sweet and harmlessly cute or humorously cantankerous (yes, I am counting House among this latter category);

    and women are all gorgeous and extremely smart (but only in juxtaposition with a super hunky dude, ie, Bones, or pretty much any cop drama) or gorgeous and stupid (see, basically everything, from sitcoms to Britney Spears’ manufactured image to, yes, 30 Rock); all perpetuate harmful stereotypes (see, Sex In The City); and are all sexually available, even if just for ogling and masturbation fodder.

    “Comedy” is just these expectations disguised under a veneer of making people laugh. And laugh they do, which says a lot about them.

    Let’s stop laughing. Let’s stop tuning in. Let’s stop watching, and listening, and buying into a system that sells a false image of us back to us. To paraphrase what someone recently wrote over at IBtP, “everyone’s for sale and you’re tricked into buying YOU.”

    Let’s get our news and entertainment from each other. I certainly do, and while I’m certainly not universal, I’m definitely not exceptional and I daresay it works okay for me.

  67. Alina May 27, 2010 at 5:39 PM #

    @joy

    I agree with most of what you say.I watch tv very little I mostly watch shows on the internet that I can choose I dont let the media chuck shows or sitcoms down my throat anymore.

    I cannot however close myself off totally from any show or movie……unfortunetaly my life isnt that exciting so often I do watch stuff for recreational reasons but I try to know as much as I can about the movie or whatever before I do so.

    I am sick to death of women being sexualized on any god damn fucking platform there is……..Im sick that not enough ppl(because they are brainwashed) fucking stand up and say fuck this or at least show equally gorgeous half naked men…..MOST DONT EVEN FUCKING NOTICE THE MISOGINY IN THE MEDIA

    I am really getting more and more allergic to it all its fucking depressing.

    I want something that I guess is a lil realistic that for any half naked stunning woman there is a half naked gorgeous men sexualized equally…….Why the fuck doesnt that happen,why arent there more female media moguls who have a say……..arrrrrrr

  68. isme May 28, 2010 at 7:16 AM #

    Or possibly realistic looking people being depicted in anything depicting reality.

  69. joy May 29, 2010 at 10:02 AM #

    Yeah, what isme said.

    Sure, hetero women (and people who could go either way) sometimes like looking at a good-looking man and this is ignored by the media.

    But for one thing, society’s standards of “good-looking” are not everyone’s (I doubt, for example, that there would be an abundance of slender, “effete”, ginger-haired hipster types with glasses, arm tats, and chest plates on display, but I for one think that category of man is more pleasing to the eye than oiled-up beefcakes with boilerplate abs and huge pecs) —

    and for another, way more important thing, sexualizing an unhealthy standard of male beauty to equal out the unhealthy standard of female beauty isn’t going to make the unhealthy female beauty standard go away.

    Abolition of all beauty standards is the way to go.

    There is a difference between a standard and a preference, too, which I think many people forget when they argue against the abolition of beauty standards. “But it’s natural!” Yeah, right.
    I stated a preference in this comment. But not only is it not my only preference, I do not think any of my preferences should be the standard to which all men are held.

    Men often think that all women should look like their personal Barbie dolls. What kind of narcissism is that? How steeped in entitlement do you have to be to harass, dismiss, or mock a woman because looking at her doesn’t sexually please YOU?

  70. Alina June 1, 2010 at 1:00 AM #

    quote joy:
    and for another, way more important thing, sexualizing an unhealthy standard of male beauty to equal out the unhealthy standard of female beauty isn’t going to make the unhealthy female beauty standard go away.

    Abolition of all beauty standards is the way to go.

    Well obviously ppl have different tastes but there is a stereotyped beauty for both genders.No its not gonna help the unhealthy beauty standards of women at all but atleast it would be equal and it is the most realistic thing that could happen imho in the near future.

    Abolition of beauty standards I dont know what to think of that I dont know how realistic that is, thats why I came up with a solution that I find to be more realistic i.e equal sexualized good looking men.Now that I think about it there are quite a few but they are not always sexualized wich is the difference you dont see close ups or slow motions of their Bulges.
    In twilight[*wonders* how I am gonna be perceived now that I admit to have seen twillight]
    the men especially that wolf boy are sexualized where as the women almost arent at all,but then again it is targeted at women and maybe gay men.

    About the whole beauty Abolition thing I really have a split opinion because I do care alot about how I look and I am not sure if its either wishfull thinking on my behalf but I like to think that I try to look good not because patriarchy or the popculture has brainwashed me into beliving I have to.

    Maybe if men will be equally sexualized in the media its gonna make them a bit less sexiest and think twice before judging women by their looks and seeing them as sex toys or masturbatory fodder……..Because they would feel on their own skin how it is to be under massive pressure,MEN DONT EVEN KNOW HOW IT FEELS LIKE TO BE JUDGED BY YOUR LOOKS ONLY.
    I think its time that they fucking do and I really belive it would changed the way they threat women.

    I have a dream that in all the women magazines there are as many half naked dudes like in the men magazines and that aswell in the media.

    When you experience something on your own it changes the way you are about that specific thing towards the others.Thats why I think its a fucking brilliant idea to equally sexulaize men everywhere.

  71. lizor June 2, 2010 at 6:58 AM #

    @joy May 29, 2010 at 10:02 AM

    YES!!!!!!!

  72. isme June 2, 2010 at 10:41 AM #

    @Alina…I hadn’t thought of that. It’d be interesting to see it happen.

    Though, I’d imagine the “what about the menz” brigade you just get more converts, and we’d hear even more about how women’s rights have gone way too far and men are being persecuted instead.

  73. joy June 2, 2010 at 4:25 PM #

    I’ve seen what you’ve been saying, but I’m an idealist, Alina.

    I just can’t settle for the consolation prize, even though I know we’re not gonna win first place any time in my lifetime.

  74. lizor August 2, 2010 at 4:16 AM #

    @ Alina, I totally get what you are saying re: tit for tat (tit for tit?) and I have wished it many times myself – if only they could know what it feels like.

    The thing is, we have so many centuries of being seen and seeing ourselves as property and appearance being, in recent history, the main criterion by which we are measured and valued that I can’t see any current change being able to replicate for men how it feels to be assessed in this way. There’s just too much goddamn history.

    I hate to my fucking core that “beauty” in a woman has nothing to do with a look of intelligence, happiness or anything complex, human and deeper than bone structure and the colours and size of your respective bits, not to mention having no sign of encroaching death by way of a wrinkle or flesh giving in to gravity.

    I just try to exercise as much media hygiene as I can, to keep my poor brain as clear of those images from Western media where everyone wears the same mask and speak my own perspective whenever it comes up.

    Abolition/dissolution of all beauty standards would be a beautiful thing indeed.

  75. joy August 2, 2010 at 9:36 PM #

    Media hygiene, lizor, yes. That’s a great word for it.

    When you’ve cleansed yourself of media, the first instinct upon seeing it again (in the subway, on the side of a bus) is repulsion, confusion, and horror. General ‘WTF!’.

    It’s easy to see the horrorshow in advertisements and entertainment medias when you avoid looking at any of it (as much as that’s possible in this world, where the corporate bastards take every possible opportunity, then manufacture totally new and mind-blowingly confusing opportunities, to sell a warped version of ourselves to us).

  76. lizor August 3, 2010 at 12:52 PM #

    Joy,

    I have been in the fortunate position to both spend extended periods of time in the bush and also extended periods of time in creative retreats where there aren’t even any mirrors, let alone TV, magazines etc.

    I inevitably feel, upon my return from these retreats, like something in me is being suffocated, or like my immune system is quickly being depressed. I’ll even bet it’s measurable physiologically. I remember leaving a retreat and wandering into the shop at the small airport, looking at the wall of “women’s” magazines and I could literally feel the life drain out of me.

    Anyhow, this blog is a lifeline of sanity for me, so thanks to ND and all of the other regular posters here.

    And , to re-rail here for a second, I fucking loath Bill Maher. I first saw him in that shit film he did on religion where he flounces around mocking poor and working class people and shooting fish in a barrel when it comes to fundamentalists. Like “Ooh, I never knew that literal interpretations of the patriarchal texts were kind of dumb before Bill Fucking Maher pointed it out.”

    He’s living proof that in our culture all you need to get ahead is a dink and a shitload of arrogance.

  77. Madeline September 27, 2010 at 3:28 PM #

    I just wanted to say that I absolutely love your blog and am so glad I found it! Although I still sometimes find myself getting trapped in the cogs of the “man-chine”, I ascribe to everything you’ve posted so far and I think it’s great that you’re not afraid to speak your mind and use common sense that all women should have!

  78. Julia R September 29, 2010 at 10:44 PM #

    Hey, sorry I agree with a lot of what you say but isnt using the insult “douchebag” pretty sexist? I was just thinking that because it I hear a lot of guys saying that and to me it has the same connotations as calling someone a pussy.

  79. Valerie M September 30, 2010 at 9:58 AM #

    Hiya Julia. I don’t think you can equate pussy and douche. A pussy is a woman’s body part, and to turn that into an insult is misogynist. A douche, however, is not a woman’s body part. It is a tool of the patriarchy, as it has no other purpose than to make women feel like shit about themselves, and harms us as well with its pH unbalancing. It is part of the war on our femaleness.

    Therefore, a douche is a tool of the patriarchy.

  80. Julia R September 30, 2010 at 10:13 AM #

    Well because its clearly an insult that came to be by making fun of something thats natural for women.

    • Nine Deuce September 30, 2010 at 11:00 AM #

      There is nothing natural about douching.

  81. Julia R October 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM #

    thanks for the clarification Valerie and Nine Deuce

  82. Stephen Stavropoulos November 6, 2010 at 8:53 PM #

    Great Post….Glad I found it…

    One thing I want to get off my chest…is how “liberal” Hollywood is supposed to be Pro Gay, sensitive to womens rights, etc tec, yet the jokes still fly on every show and from every “stand up” comedian about how repulsive and unwanted being gay is….I dont get it….

    Im not gay, but Im offended for gay people that have to still put up with rank disrespect and foolishness in the name of pleasing the public dollar fountain….

    When will Pro Gay, Pro Womens Rights etc etc be treated as equally as they claim when they spew and spout about it on the TV or the political stump?

    We’ve got a long way to go.

  83. Cat January 13, 2011 at 8:26 AM #

    Bill Maher is a truth teller and a funny one at that. Calling the NRA an assasin is right on the money. ‘Cuz that’s what the NRA is–lobbyists for assasins.

  84. Fred July 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM #

    I wouldn’t piss on Bill Maher’s grave, the line would be way too long. I canceled HBO because I despise him so much.

  85. Sugarpuss August 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM #

    Joy said:

    Let’s stop laughing. Let’s stop tuning in. Let’s stop watching, and listening, and buying into a system that sells a false image of us back to us. To paraphrase what someone recently wrote over at IBtP, “everyone’s for sale and you’re tricked into buying YOU.”

    Well said.

    I cancelled my cable subscription a few days ago. I just kept thinking “Why am I paying The Man $53 a month to disrespect me?”, and finally decided that enough was enough. That bit of extra cash could buy something that’s actually useful, like more art supplies. :)

  86. Nate August 25, 2011 at 9:53 PM #

    Damn,this blog post is on point!

  87. Nate August 25, 2011 at 10:02 PM #

    IMHO it’s because most comedians have the largest market with college age guys,many who like this type of humor. Really,comedians are truly awful these days. Dave Chapelle spoke up against the way blacks were treated by Hollywood and continually typecast and had the morality to quit a racist TV show which shows some type of limits which most other Hollywood people lack. Once people pass the age of 24 they will have to stop going to any form of medium besides books for laughs.

  88. Anne September 11, 2011 at 5:22 PM #

    Bill Maher could do nothing for me but have a stroke.

  89. misandry January 19, 2012 at 1:30 PM #

    “Bill Maher could do nothing for me but have a stroke.”

    HAHAHA I agree! I fucking hate liberal men who only support feminism and women’s rights when it benefits them. They support women’s rights to be porn stars, strippers and prostitutes because they get something out of it! And as a rape survivor who has been date raped, I HATE rape jokes they are the cruelest things I’ve ever heard and every time I hear them I feel powerless. I can’t even tell you how many men I’ve known who have said rape jokes to me and they’re so oblivious to how it will offend and frighten me and other women. Do they really expect me to laugh at that shit when I’ve been raped, sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, and street harassed by altogether hundreds of men in my lifetime? FUCK THAT AND FUCK THEM! Hey I’ve got a joke for all you men who think rape jokes are funny: Women should force rapists AND men who tell rape jokes to drink menstrual blood while being castrated! HAHA-HAHA!

    You know what else I’ve fucking noticed? It’s usually white men who make rape jokes. I was raped by my ex boyfriend who was a white man three years ago as of yesterday, I’m Mexican/Chicana and biracial from being part (ew) white, so after knowing my whole life that white men have oppressed women and people of color, I’ve learned first hand how that direct oppression feels, and I don’t have to respect white men who treat me less human for being a women or a Latina. I’ve forgiven a few men who have made rape jokes ONLY because they are best friends and I gave them a long talk and they apologized. Trust me, the memories are still painful but that whole issue with the VERY few men I was able to forgive was because of complex reasons. I forgive a few worthy people but I never forget… And the next man who tells a rape joke is going to get a mouthful from me!

    • cub January 20, 2012 at 4:19 PM #

      misandry– enjoyed your blood joke, but you know what? i am white and used to date a chicano dude who said things that were worse than your (ew) about white people; i completely gave up on him once i realized how irredeemably antisemitic he was, on top of being sexist. so go sell you racialicious crap somewhere else.

  90. Fede January 21, 2012 at 11:03 AM #

    Saying ‘ew’ about whiteness – not least when one is part white oneself – is not commensurate to the ‘racialicious crap’ that whites have given PoC, cub. You know why? Because white is the ‘race’* with the institutional skin privilege in this racist world, that’s why.

    You wanna condemn the guy you dated for being an anti-semite, or for being sexist, that’s fair; but he did not oppress you for being white. He may have given you a lot of shit for it, and hey, that sucks and is an undesirable trait in a date, for sure, and I’m happy for you that you are well rid of him.

    But PoC giving white people shit for being white? Is not oppression. PoC don’t have the institutional power to racially oppress white people. That’s Social Justice 101.

    Suggesting that you are the victim of/vulnerable to racial oppression – I believe that is what you are suggesting? – when you belong to the one class of people who has all the racial power is actually somewhat offensive. Even to me.

    *’race’ in scare quotes because the idea that humans come in different races is inaccurate. But we sure as hell come in different skin privilege classes.

    Regards,
    A(nother) Whitey

  91. Felicia February 6, 2012 at 7:03 AM #

    Great post, couldn´t agree more! I´m a swedish socialist but I´ve watched Bill Maher on youtube, he really is a mysoginist loser.. I´ve always hated liberalism, but recently I´ve noticed the most mysoginists and anti-feminists come from there as well. It is partly strange, cause they love speaking of rights and support of blacks and gays, but for some reason they seem to focuse their hate on women. :(

  92. isme February 7, 2012 at 4:32 AM #

    “It is partly strange, cause they love speaking of rights and support of blacks and gays, but for some reason they seem to focuse their hate on women. :(”

    Strange yes, but unfortunately not uncommon. People passionately supporting rights for Group A often like the oppression of Groups B-Z.

    For some reason, it annoys me that people against rights groups never bring this up. So very many ridiculous attacks, you’d think they could mention a genuine concern for variety.

  93. CPB February 24, 2012 at 10:05 AM #

    @Isme, @Alicia: They like to help gays and minorites because those populations have large groups of men in them. LOTS of male minorities…LOTS of male gays. There are no penises in the women group, so the hategoat (aka scapegoat) buden falls squarely on them.

  94. lizor February 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM #

    “They like to help gays and minorites because those populations have large groups of men in them. LOTS of male minorities…LOTS of male gays. ”

    Yes. That.

  95. isme February 25, 2012 at 12:09 AM #

    “They like to help gays and minorites because those populations have large groups of men in them. LOTS of male minorities…LOTS of male gays. ”

    Not sure about that, or rather, ih my own experience, the ones I’ve tended to see look like they’ve worn themselves out patting themselves on the backs (because nobody else will) for no longer being something out of the dark ages in relation to one or two social issues, and can’t be bothered waking up in regards to any others.

    Though, I’m sure the people you describe do exist, maybe I’ve just managed not to run into many so far.

  96. misandry March 9, 2012 at 3:10 PM #

    @cub: Men of all races can be misogynists, rapists, etc. It’s wrong that the Chicano guy you were with was being sexist and antisemitic. But white men oppressing women of color is, on a historical and political scale, is oppression; and men of color “oppressing” white women is horrible and just as misogynist obviously, but it is NOT racial oppression against white people. White people are using their white privilege when they say they are capable of being “oppressed.”

    @Fede: Thank you! When I try to explain the whole “hating whites is not oppression or as bad as hating people of color” fact to people in person, it’s been hard to organize my thoughts. You worded it perfectly.

    “Suggesting that you are the victim of/vulnerable to racial oppression – I believe that is what you are suggesting? – when you belong to the one class of people who has all the racial power is actually somewhat offensive. Even to me.”

    Yes you perfectly explain whites using their white privilege to be able to say they are oppressed, and yes it IS offensive to me when whites think they can be oppressed! Funny thing is I don’t hate white people, I hate white privilege and the white people who use white privilege. I appreciate you being very educated about racial oppression and white privilege.

    • cub March 9, 2012 at 6:36 PM #

      “misandry– enjoyed your blood joke, but you know what? i am white and used to date a chicano dude who said things that were worse than your (ew) about white people; i completely gave up on him once i realized how irredeemably antisemitic he was, on top of being sexist. so go sell you racialicious crap somewhere else.”

      that is what i wrote. you distorted it to grind some ax. i do not understand how you could ignore that i mentioned how this person was also sexist and antisemitic, and that i dropped him once he showed those two facets IN ADDITION to his ugly crap about “white people.”

      point being: bigots tend to be bigoted. even people of color can be bigoted against (gasp!) other people of color, and, as usual, women of ALL COLORS. if i had seen this person’s bigotry against white people for what it was at the beginning, i could have saved myself from enduring his sexism and antisemitism, for example.

      i just don’t trust anyone who waves a red flag like that anymore. and i won’t cut slack for anyone who tries to paint any group with a broad brush. see, i’m not jewish, but the antisemitism was my cue to leave, as in, “this shit is not going to get any better, in fact, i can only see it getting worse.” like with people who make (ew) white remarks.

  97. Fede March 12, 2012 at 4:08 AM #

    But that’s the whole problem, cub: you are implying that going ‘ew’ at whiteness is bigotry. (And by insisting on the comparison, you are saying it is bigotry on a par with anti-semitism and misogyny). misandry and I are saying it is not.

    When 99.9 % of a population group prove to you again and again that they are bigoted against you – as is the case with whites and their systematic, institutional oppression of PoC – the oppressed group is justified in saying ‘ew’ about that damn group.

    Similarly, I say ‘ew’ about men as a class on a regular basis, and I have every right. It does not mean I will treat the individual man as if he did not deserve every basic human consideration. It just means that men as a class are bad news in my carefully considered opinion. Which they ARE. They have proven that beyond any doubt, and until there is a general, fundamental change of attitude in society, they will continue to be bad news for women. That’s just a fact. It’s not bigotry.

    • cub March 12, 2012 at 8:57 PM #

      ahh.. reading comprehension FAIL. you are too dumb to live. i give up.

  98. Fede March 12, 2012 at 4:41 AM #

    @misandry: Thank you for your words of encouragement! I hope I have not put words into your mouth with my previous comment. I just get irked and argumentative when feminists don’t take their experiences belonging to an oppressed group and use those experiences to try to comprehend the horrors of other oppressions. I do not mean to suggest that sexism and racism are comparable in every way, because obviously they are each unique forms of oppression. But I actually think the so-called ‘reverse sexism’ and ‘reverse racism’ arguments sound eerily alike.

  99. lizor March 12, 2012 at 6:39 AM #

    @Fede

    “I actually think the so-called ‘reverse sexism’ and ‘reverse racism’ arguments sound eerily alike.”

    For what it’s worth I agree with you 100%. This “reverse” argument presupposes a level playing field, hiding and therefore defending the existing hierarchy.

  100. Fede March 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM #

    @cub: The comprehension failure is yours. That you want to get abusive about it is misfortunate.

  101. Truthteller May 28, 2012 at 4:19 PM #

    Hmmmm…if she had said ” he was black (ew)” I doubt anyone would be ok with it. I think there is too much emphasis on race in feminism these days, and I have seen some really insulting things written about white women. By saying that white people have no right to speak up when someone insults us you are denying my full humanity and being incredibly arrogant. I assume you are in the “rich white women’s rape doesn’t matter” club. Nice.

  102. Truthteller May 28, 2012 at 10:39 PM #

    Eh…ok, so I got a little pissy with the last post, BUT I hate it when people have to make issues like rape about race (which is what people do when they make feminism about race). I feel for rape survivors no matter their skin color. However, having grown up in a trailer park I say say for certain that poor white women exist and that their sexual exploitation is as valid as anyone else’s. I have just seen too many women take the privilege argument to mean I can insult white women all I want because they are privileged. Trust me, even white women don’t get convictions in their rape cases. We are really all in the same boat in this matter.

  103. isme May 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM #

    Although I agree that there is often too much emphasis on race in feminism, I don’t think that’s because race isn’t an issue, it’s because people fighting oppression that affects them tend to ignore oppression that doesn’t. There are a lot of white feminists content to ignore or exploit race issues, same as with any activist group and any cause that isn’t their’s.

    And, yes, it is possible to be a poor white woman, but that doesn’t mean that white privilege doesn’t exist, only that male privilege and class privilege does as well.

    Intersectionality is an important thing, something people are, IMHO, too comfortable with ignoring.

  104. lizor May 29, 2012 at 3:16 PM #

    @ Cub: intelligent people don’t need to make ad-hominem attacks during a discussion. Get over yourself. A while you are doing that, read this:

    http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/faq-arent-feminists-just-sexists-towards-men/

  105. lizor May 29, 2012 at 3:17 PM #

    Sorry, I meant “And while you are doing that, read: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/faq-arent-feminists-just-sexists-towards-men/

  106. lizor May 30, 2012 at 7:12 AM #

    I agree with you Isme.

    But I am confused by some of the other comments on this thread and how anyone here could be accused of racism. Misandry implied that she was repelled by the fact that she herself has some white ancestry. Cub said that this was “selling racialicious crap”.

    When Fede disagreed with Cub’s condemnation of Misandry, Cub answered as if Fede was addressing the story about the sexist anti-Semitic boyfriend – which Fede was obviously not doing. Cub simply would not acknowledge that Misandry was referring to herself. Then she called me or Fede (not sure which) “too dumb to live” and said Fede/I could not read.

    Aggressively calling someone’s discomfort with THEIR OWN privilege “racism” or “sexism” and telling them to leave someone else’s blog is not only inappropriate, it derails and punishes anyone for trying to recognize their unearned advantages. And it just does not make any sense.

    Over on another thread a poster is expressing shame and confusion for their own maleness. It does not follow with reprimands that the poster is “reverse-sexist” or some nonsense.

    No one here shat on white women and no one said that abuse of white women does not matter. No one.

    Maybe, just maybe, if a PoC is saying that they have a negative view of white people, the white person could try listening and learning about that person’s experience rather than reinforcing that negative experience by denying it, silencing or abandoning that person. Certainly it is more complex, as Isme and others have pointed out, when you have a male PoC and a white female but if both people are willing to look at their privilege vs their experience of oppression it could be a pretty useful exchange.

    And for the love of god Cub, can you make a point without hurling personal insults? Do you know how it looks when a person who has not read someone’s response accurately says “reading comprehension FAIL. you are too dumb to live”??

    Here’s a hint: It starts with an “H” and rhymes with “hypocrite”.

    Ooops! Now look – I’ve gone and given away the riddle!

  107. skeptifem May 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM #

    truthteller, when native women get raped at astronomical rates on reservations it means that there is a racial component to their rape. When women of color are put in prison at such high rates, and sexual assault is so common place from correctional officers and police, it means there is a racial component to their rape. When black slaves were sexualized and raped routinely it means there is a racial component to rape (it didn’t go away with slavery). When trafficking victims and prostituted women are disproportionately women of color it means that there is a racial component to rape.

    I have never heard a woman of color say that white women always get convictions or that we don’t get raped. I have heard them say that their concerns are brushed aside, and that is what I am seeing you do now. It is possible for rape to violent and sexist AND racist, and white people like you or me cannot really understand how the racist part of it feels. It doesn’t make the rape of white women less painful or horrifying to pay attention to the problems of women of color.

  108. Hecate May 31, 2012 at 5:37 PM #

    Well put, skeptifem. I would recommend this film to anyone who thinks that privileged folk are the so-called ‘good guys’ or pillars of society. The price this man’s family paid for his actions was horrendous:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107151/

  109. Truthteller June 3, 2012 at 12:14 PM #

    Or to put it another more obvious way…three girls get gang raped by the same group of men in one night. One was black, one was native American, and one was white. I assume you would all run to your computers to blog about who was the most historically culturally oppressed or some other inane bullshit rather than treating all three as rape and all three as equally important. Is it more important for the native American woman to get justice or the black woman to get justice because they were historically oppressed? We don’t judge muggings this way, and it it a serious error on your part to judge rapes this way and if you do then are no better than the racist cop and court system you claim to be so against. They also judge the situation based on their own skewed lens. Either all rapes are equal or they aren’t. Didn’t we already go through this with the date/stranger rape? Check yourself. Either you are pro-rape survivor (and treat all rapes as equally valid)or you are just another feminist blogger exploiting rape victims for your own interest. My 2c.

  110. Truthteller June 3, 2012 at 12:44 PM #

    Also, save your condescension. I don’t need you to “educate” me because I am not ignorant or racist. I have a degree, so I am not unaware of your argument; I just don’t give a shit about it, and I think it turns rape into another topic to be removed from everyday life and talked about in a way that does nothing for survivors of ANY race (ie: intersectionality). In other words, Crenshaw’s bullshit is a waste of time.

    Honestly, I think feminists should get the fuck out of rape advocacy, and leave it to professionals because you are doing more harm than good. Next time you want to blog about rape and race, why don’t you get off your fucking ass and go volunteer at a rape crisis center instead. Then maybe you will stop looking at every fucking thing through the cloudy lens of “privilege”, and see that the real human toll of rape has nothing to do with historical oppression and everything to do with the soul and body of the person who has just been raped, regardless of that persons heritage, culture, or skin color.

  111. isme June 4, 2012 at 5:06 AM #

    Since when has it been necessary to ignore everything else when acknowledging the existence of racism?

    It’s not a zero-sum game, caring about one cause does not mean people are unable to care about others.

  112. Fede June 4, 2012 at 5:52 PM #

    that the real human toll of rape has nothing to do with historical oppression

    That is just blatantly false.

    Every individual survivor of rape is equally wronged and should command our sympathy and our desire for justice. That doesn’t motherfucking mean we have to lie about the fact that having a certain (non-white) skin colour puts a woman at greater risk of being raped in her lifetime. You are just not willing to tell the whole truth, Truthteller.

  113. Smoovie December 31, 2012 at 12:56 AM #

    Reblogged this on Nah, Laters.

  114. Phil Schifley January 1, 2014 at 8:13 PM #

    Diatribes are pithy and summarily reach a well-reasoned conclusion. This was a manifesto. Try hiring an editor. Than maybe I’ll read your drivel.

    • Nine Deuce January 1, 2014 at 8:33 PM #

      I’m not the one who doesn’t know the difference between “than” and “then.”

    • mapaxn January 18, 2014 at 7:51 PM #

      Dear “phil” – your reference to Phyllis Schadfly as a play of words on your name has not gone unnoticed by me. I can’t decide if you’re giving a shameless plug to the woman who killed the Equal Rights Amendment for women or because you fancy yourself a male version of her. Either way, I’m disgusted.

      It also hasn’t escaped my attention that you don’t know the difference between a diatribe and a manifesto. A manifesto is a statement of intent and motive by an individual or group; which this post clearly is not. It actually *is* a diatribe, and thanks to you we learn actually does reach a well reasoned conclusion no matter how much in denial you happen to be about that fact.

      I’m tired of people using language as a way to abuse and obfuscate – why don’t you just say what’s really on your mind? You hate this post because you disagree with it. Period, the end. No need for snippy little bs comments about hiring an editor. No need to waste your time twisting word definitions and facts around to re-write reality to your liking.

      Using words as a mechanism for conquering is nothing new, it’s not clever, it’s not cool nor is it worth anyone’s time to engage when words are used as weapons instead of a means to communicate clearly.

  115. Brian Bailey April 25, 2014 at 8:20 PM #

    omg i loved this article. I cannot stand Bill Maher.
    To the Liberal Dude tangent that followed I can only add this: There is a massive disconnect with people (mostly MEN i think) telling themselves (and actually believing it) that I’m a NICE GUY, when in reality everything they do is a payment in their mind, toward some kind of fantasy sex karma that of course only exists in their head, meaning pretty much anyone who labels himself a “nice guy”, should read as “dangerously delusional entitled self-serving willfully ignorant misogynistic asshole pathetic man-child”.

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