If you’ve ever called anyone a cougar, fuck you.

25 Aug

I was walking around in some park yesterday with a friend and we ended up discussing the utterly stupid phenomenon of people calling women who date younger men “cougars.” We agreed, of course, that the term is totally passe and is usually deployed by the kinds of people who think having “Shake and bake!” as their MySpace headline is clever. But that, obviously, is not all; “cougar” is yet another dehumanizing term that our culture uses to reduce female human beings to gross and blunt stereotypes based on their sexual choices.

Let me tell you a small story. Wednesday night I went out to some asshole party at the local pub where Americans pretend to be English while drinking Guinness and watching sports they have no business being into (English soccer). The asshole party was called Trivia Night. I’ve never been to pub trivia before because I usually don’t have the chance to get wasted on a Tuesday, and because I’m not on a co-ed softball team, so it was a real experience. Myself, my friend Nate, and my other friend Gay Steve formed a little team called Lambda Lambda Lambda and we did pretty well considering the fact that we were playing against teams with 10 or 15 people on them. Still, we blew it because we didn’t know how many emirates made up the United Arab Emirates. Weak, I know.

When the trivia was all over, I had some spare attention to spread around the patio area and I saw something that nearly blew my mind. Some dude had a beard that had more net volume than Osama bin Laden, Fidel Castro in his heydey, and Scott Ian could muster in a cooperative effort — and not only that — he had on some plaid emo cowboy shirt with the sleeves cut off, and a trucker hat with a patch on it urging me to buy some tractor or other (I say trucker hats are unacceptable and always will be — they’ve used up their irony cachet at least four times over, and will never, ever be cool). I didn’t check, but I’m sure he also had on a giant belt buckle that said something stupid about guns or bourbon on it. I wouldn’t have been able to see it, anyway, because he had the gut to match the outfit. He basically looked like he’d been in the forests of Idaho doing nothing but cutting logs and motorboatin’ for about four years, but he hadn’t been.  The whole thing was some kind of kit he put together to let everyone know what a hip motherfucker he is. For this guy, every single day is Halloween, and he trick-or-treats for hipster points (which I think can be cashed in at Urban Outfitters for books of drinking games or forty cozies). Shameful.

What you may not know about me is that I’m kind of an asshole, especially when I’ve been drinking in a room full of people that bring me close to fainting with embarrassment. As such, I decided to go tell the guy I was really impressed with his kit and that he should definitely keep the look up, no matter what anyone says. Apparently, though, my sarcasm didn’t make its way through and some bald dickfore that was hanging out with the guy took my completely backhanded compliment to mean I was interested in the faux motorboatin’, deer huntin’, Jim Beam swillin’ trucker. The bald guy made some hand signal that, as far as I know, is the SCUBA diver signal to indicate that there’s a barracuda nearby, so I asked him what it meant. I was curious, you know. I wish I hadn’t asked, though, because the trucker apologetically told me that it meant Kojak was calling me a cougar in code. Uh huh.

I’m only 30. Plus, I don’t even look 30, because I haven’t been abusing myself with beauty rituals for the last 15 years, and because I don’t wear make-up and refuse to dress like a responsible adult. In fact, I’m pretty sure I look younger than the trucker, who, despite being only 21, looked about 40 due to his ridiculous fashion choices. And I might be and look a decade younger than the bald cockface who made the signal in the first place. Added to that is the fact that I’d sooner get a tribal tattoo than hit on a dude who thinks dressing up like someone named Cletus or Skeeter is cool. I’m not telling you any of that to impress upon you how purty I am or how much cooler I am than anyone else, but rather to point out one small bit of the absurdity of this ass clown thinking he was witty for using a term to insult me that didn’t even apply to the situation.

But, of course, germanity isn’t the central issue here. The central issue is that this guy thinks he’s cool/funny/edgy/impressing someone by being snarky by trying to shame me for having the temerity to be a woman outside doing what I feel like doing, including talking to a dude without having been spoken to first. As such, I deserved to be put back in my place, and how better to achieve that than to verbally reduce me from a human being to an animal/undesirable sexual stereotype? This stupid, drunk, mouth-breathing, bald, old asshole conceived of himself as a bigger deal than me, as higher in the hierarchy than I am, just because he has a wiener (which is, unfortunately, true, no matter how much smarter, cooler, and better I am than he is – IBTP), and he was threatened enough by my refusal to fulfill his expectations of what women ought to act like in public to put down his drink, stop trying to show off his spider web tattoo, and dehumanize a total stranger. Fuckin’ A. I made some witty-as-fuck reply like, “At least I have all my hair and don’t have to take out my frustration over my impotence, baldness, and low IQ on people I don’t even know.” I’m sure there was a “fuck you” and some mention of his stupid tattoos in there, too, but it all just happened so faaast.

So I’ve been thinking about the term “cougar” for the past few days. Well, really, I’ve been thinking about it for a long time. I used to have a friend named Leo who was in a New Wave band (in 2002) called Cougar!, and the first time I heard someone use the term “cougar” to refer to an older woman who dated younger dudes I got really pissed because I knew one of the coolest New Wave band names ever had been ruined. I also knew I was going to be hearing a lot more of yet another derogatory term for women that had arisen out of yet another double standard. SNORE.

I fucking hate Sex and the City and refuse to watch it, but I knew when a show came out that revolved around women who weren’t 22 fucking dudes who were — and when that show became a huge cultural phenomenon among the kinds of women I don’t want to hang out with — that we’d be hearing a lot of bullshit about some purportedly “new” sexual trends among women spawned by the show’s popularity. That doesn’t mean I have a problem with women who want to go out and hose around with younger men, it means I don’t think it’s anything new, and that I don’t need to hear any more ill-informed, misogynistic, ham-fisted speculation in the mainstream media about women’s sexuality that amounts to nothing more than translucently-veiled condemnations of women who don’t adhere to patriarchal mandates for female sexual behavior; there’s nothing more insulting to women’s intelligence than some fool in the media pretending to celebrate the “spunk” of “women who break the rules” when he/she’s really just telling us why such women ought to be ashamed of themselves and worried about their man-less, lonely, desperate futures.

“Cougar,” like “whore,” “slut,” “bitch,” “nag,” “ho,” “skank,” “cunt,” etc. (golly-GEE, there are so many), has no counterpart that can be leveled at a dude. I mean, you could call a dude any one of those terms, but it wouldn’t carry the connotations, the baggage, or the power it does when directed at a woman. It’s kind of like the difference between the n-word and “cracker.” You can call a white guy a cracker, but it’s not going to sting too bad when he can reply, “Whatever. I still run everything.” There’s no power to dehumanize in calling a white guy a cracker, because white guys, being as they are the default humans, are always human beings. Similarly, you could call a dude who dates younger women a cougar (or something similarly stupid), but you’d have a hard time bumming his party out because being able to hump younger women is, like, the ultimate indicator of prestige among men.

Not so with women. The Sex and the City people may want to portray humping dudes half your age as empowerful as fuck, but it just isn’t. If you’d like some evidence as to why that’s so, see if you can find a clip from an April episode of SNL called “Cougar’s Den.” I, unfortunately, was present at the taping of that episode. I got some free tickets and decided I’d go, just to see how they pull of the stage changes and whatnot, despite the fact that I’m pretty sure there are episodes of Touched By An Angel that are funnier (and maybe even less boring) than anything SNL’s done in the last decade, and despite the fact that Ashton Kutcher was the host and the musical guest was Gnarls Barkley.

Cameron Diaz was apparently in town for some reason and decided to stop by and do a cameo, and that cameo was a fake talk show called “Cougar’s Den.” I’m sure you can imagine how groaningly stupid the skit was, but I’ll give you the pertinent details: it was basically three women who were supposed to be about 40 swilling multi-colored drinks out of martini glasses, swapping tips on how to bag younger men, and making idolatric (coinage?) references to the Sex and the City character that fucks the most young dudes on the show (I think she’s the one that was in Mannequin and the first Police Academy). The tips included going to bars late, when the “prey” are all too drunk to notice how old (and hence worthless) you are, doing it with the lights off, and taking off before they find out you’re not actually fuckable. Then one of the cougars brought out her “boyfriend” (played by Kutcher), who talked about how he liked dating cougars because you could treat them like shit and they’d still fuck you any way you asked them to and give you money. Niiiice.

I realize that making an SNL skit a central part of an argument might seem ill-advised, but it just seems that way because you haven’t thought about it. SNL skits are a fairly decent indicator of what the LCD in this country thinks. As such, I’m pretty sure I’ve got a grip on what the average dude who does Borat impressions is thinking when he calls someone a cougar.

In case I haven’t already leaked what that might be, here it is: when someone calls a woman a cougar, he (or she… fucking appeasers) is saying she has lost the one thing men find valuable in women in this culture, her fuckability (which derives from youth and how closely one matches whatever absurd beauty standard Bebe and Maybelline are flexing that day), and has thus become an object of ridicule. Even though the term assumes that the woman being discussed is a successful urban type who has most likely achieved something in life and is probably interesting to talk to, she’s worthless. Because she has lost her one source of esteem, she has no real power over men, and no ability to get anyone to love or even like her, even dudes her own age. As such, she must be desperate, and what’s more repugnant in our culture than a desperate unfuckable woman? Desperate women resort to trickery: cougars go out and try to entrap younger men with alcohol, offers to service them sexually, and the money that a mature career woman can offer.

So, once again, a woman attempting to go out into the world and exhibit the exact same behavior men exhibit in droves is derided, dehumanized, and humiliated by a culture that won’t stand for women acting like full human beings. When a woman oversteps the bounds of acceptable female behavior and dares to pursue something she desires, men get threatened and have to remind her that, while she may be able to fuck a dude who is young enough to be her younger brother, she’s still powerless and worthless; because she’s not young, hawt, and demure, he may fuck her, but he’ll never place any value in her as a human being. And neither will anyone else.

You know what that is? Terrorism.

(Please, one of you dumbass MRAs, try to tell me how that’s the same thing as an older man dating a “gold-digging” younger woman.)

I’ll be back later with a sloppy attempt to discuss my vacation in the context of feminism.

UPDATE: Some people have been giving me a hard time for making fun of these two dudes and then getting mad at them for insulting me. The difference is twofold: my making fun of them does not deny their humanity, but rather their judgment; and my insults all revolved around things they have control over (not their gender or age, but their foolish fashion and tattoo choices). Duh.


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92 Responses to “If you’ve ever called anyone a cougar, fuck you.”

  1. Jen August 25, 2008 at 12:45 AM #

    I think Jon Stewart did something on cougars that was fairly funny. He, and his corespondent, basically produced a satire of how people think of cougars.

    I’m with you when you say that making up yet another negative term to describe women who have the sexual habits of men is just fucking pathetic. I mean, it’s not like we’re ever going to hold men responsible for their predatory behaviors, but let’s shame some more vagina-totin’ losers for daring to fuck those holy young men who deserve nothing less than untouched virgin pussy.

    Once you hit 30, maybe spawn a few brats, and hold a steady job (like a man!) you’re not allowed to want men that aren’t fat, balding, and middle-aged. In fact, seeking men your own age or a bit younger means that you are a dirty dirty whore, because you are depriving the world of nubile young men-folk that should be entitled to women that look fresh and virginal and sweet without trying.

    If there ever was a second, just once, in which society coined a negative term for a man that displayed the usual chauvinistic holier-than-tho attitudes whilst seeking sex or relationships, I’d throw a fucking party.

  2. Nine Deuce August 25, 2008 at 12:53 AM #

    Aha! I’m starting a contest.

  3. Daniel August 25, 2008 at 2:00 AM #

    Cougars are magnificent animals.

    Powerful, lithe and dangerous.

    If you knew cougars being called one would be a huge compliment.

  4. Nine Deuce August 25, 2008 at 2:02 AM #

    Yeah, if that’s what people meant by it, but they’re using the term to say these women are predatory, but still (somehow) powerless.

  5. C August 25, 2008 at 2:27 AM #

    To Jen, I completely agree with you about the whole cougar thing, and I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but what about words like pervert and creep. I know that I use those words all the time to describe a guy, the same way a misogynistic guy would use words like slut and cougar…

  6. Genevieve August 25, 2008 at 3:21 AM #

    C–
    I agree that ‘pervert’ and ‘creep’ are bad things to be, but they still imply that the person who is creepy and perverted has power, ya know? A ‘slut’ does not, a ‘cougar’ does not, but a pervert–you don’t want to go near him, because he’ll rape you. (At least that’s what the word implies for me.) He’s still the one with the power, the women are still the ones being told to beware his power. Whereas a slut or a cougar–men aren’t presumed to be ‘afraid’ of them. They’re assumed to be wanting to use them for their own needs–use them, throw them away. And even if a man does not want to ‘use’ a ‘slut’–if, say, he’s happily in a relationship and doesn’t want to cheat, or is gay, or whatever–it’s commonly accepted that he’s going to be powerful enough to tell the ‘slut,’ “nope, sorry lady, go someplace else,” rather than, “oh NO.”

    • elle September 3, 2009 at 6:56 PM #

      The thing about pervert and creep is they describe a behavior that is abnormal – these terms do not describe a particular sex or class of people. Cougar is a term ascribed to women for doing something that is normal – dating someone younger – something men do all the time pretty much without penalty and with societal sanction for the most part.

      Because a woman’s primary value is in her youth, beauty and fertility most people don’t understand why a younger man would even want an older woman. She has no value to him, and therefore people pathologize the relationship. Something about it seems not quite right, incestuous even as the image of an older woman conjurs up the image of “mother.”

      Older man/young woman is more understandable because a man’s value is seen in status and wealth which typically increase with age.

      But yeah, I HATE the cougar term as well. Women who are just following their hearts with a consented adult male who happens to be younger don’t deserve to be insulted and pathologized for something men routinely do. If the term cougar must be used, reserve it for child molesters like Mary Kay LeTourneau.

  7. Screaming Lemur August 25, 2008 at 5:52 AM #

    Is it too much to hope that, like ‘bitch’, we can claim this word as ours? I like the idea of a woman who’s older and dares to be honest about being sexual (as though our libidos disappear after 35 or so, pfft), and I thought ‘cougar’ sounded like like a cool name for a woman who fucks like a man (ie, goes after what she wants and doesn’t give a shit about “what people will think”).
    I kinda wanna be a cougar in 20 years. Hell, I wanna be one in 10!
    …So is it too much to hope?

  8. Newbee August 25, 2008 at 2:01 PM #

    There might be a slight cultural difference because of where I’m from but in Northern Ontario the term “cougar” is not all that derogatory. It refers not so much to older woman who to date younger men but more to older woman who want to fuck younger men. Usually newly divorced woman who are out to have a good time. These woman know what they want and aren’t ashamed to go for it. They have no delusions of dating these guys since the age gap means they probably don’t have a lot in common besides a lot of sexual energy.

    There are older men who do the same thing but they are kind of seen as pathetic because they have a much harder time finding willing females and they usually end up creeping the hell out of some newly 19 year old girl.

    Now I realize that it is still kind of shitty to give people labels like “cougar”, but I just don’t see it as all that dehumanizing. But I am a 25 year old white male so the way I view all this might but a little off due to my social environment.

    P.S. I think SNL is still funny. I know I know I’m alone on this, but Sudeikis and Wiig are hilarious.

  9. bonobobabe August 25, 2008 at 2:36 PM #

    Gah, I feel old. I never heard the term cougar before. This is what happens when you don’t have a TV and you’re bearing down on 40.

    On the plus side, I’m not pissed off constantly. :-)

  10. chlorophyll August 25, 2008 at 7:18 PM #

    Lemur, you do not want to be a cougar. Here’s what a cougar looks like.

    The typical cougar is a leathery, sun-tanned specimen roughly around age 40 or older. She’s neither conventionally hot enough to be considered a MILF or classically elegant enough to simply be known as a “sexy older woman.” She is also neither alternatively fashionable nor jaded enough to pass as an aging hipster whose ravaged looks are a testament to a former life of vice.

    This type of a woman is associated with trailer parks, Harley-Davidsons, hot pink leopard print clothing, and Dolly Parton-esque style. Her skin, hair, and voice speak volumes about her lifetime of sun and tobacco abuse. She is leathery and brown with a mane of dry, damaged, chemically-treated hair. It can either be straightened or permed. It is often worn in various shades of blonde from Texan Buttermilk to Backwoods Peroxide; Pomeranian Auburn; or it is simply dyed a flat shade of blue-black that is usually of the same shade and texture as a real-live horse’s ponytail.

    I could go on, but I’m at work and don’t feel like describing anymore.

  11. L August 25, 2008 at 7:21 PM #

    I have a couple of (male) friends from Calgary, and when they discuss cougars, it is definitely not in a positive way. There’s always this undercurrent of disgust and slut-shaming belying these discussions, and it always makes me want to tear my skin off. (I also think that these particular guys are bitter because the women they call cougars aren’t hitting on them — because these guys are nearing thirty and pudgy and mopey. Not cougar material.)

    I used to think “cougar” was a positive, relatively empowering term, like Screaming Lemur, but I think it’s pretty clear that using animal names to talk about humans is problematic. And it only gets worse when you’re using animal names to discuss women (who have endured centuries of being called “birds” and “kittens” and “bunnies” and pretty much every animal except human) and when you’re using animal qualities to describe a woman’s sexuality. ND’s right — it’s just another fucking way to slut-shame women and to make sure we stay inside the madonna/whore box.

  12. Screaming Lemur August 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM #

    Ouch! I was thinking more like newbee’s definition than chlorophyll’s… kinda like Ellen Barkin, a la Ocean’s 13 (yes, I did watch that movie. I admit it).
    L’s point about using animal names to refer to humans has been taken, though. You notice it’s almost always referring to women? Guys don’t get called animal names very often.

  13. Genevieve August 26, 2008 at 1:49 AM #

    Oh, and Jen–I watched that Jon Stewart video. I thought it was funny. Thanks.

  14. Zac August 26, 2008 at 1:55 AM #

    1. Not everyone thinks it is an insult. Most guys I know of think of it as a term of adoration. Maybe you just don’t hang out with enough straight guys.

    2. You insulted the guy first.

  15. Nine Deuce August 26, 2008 at 2:19 AM #

    1. You must know some pretty special dudes if they all adore older women who want to date younger men for anything but selfish reasons. And I hang out with plenty of straight guys.

    2. No I didn’t. I insulted someone he was sitting near, but he was too stupid to tell and thought I was hitting on the guy.

  16. L August 26, 2008 at 3:05 AM #

    @Zac: If the person a term is directed to thinks it’s an insult, then it’s a fucking insult. Couching “cougar” in authorial intent doesn’t help your cause, buddy.

  17. theladyisequal August 26, 2008 at 5:33 AM #

    To follow up on Jen’s reference to Jon Stewart’s comment, I believe his quick remark was something to the effect of “What do we call men who date younger women?…Men.”

    I abhor the term cougar. I agree it is DEHUMANIZING. Maybe it’s because I’m nearing 40 and I don’t feel in any way shape or form or manner that I should be referred to as an animal who preys on helpless vegetarians. Like you I appear young–very young (I got guessed as “18” last year) and if I attract younger men, what is the harm? That doesn’t mean I need to be called something that is taking away one of the herd from the rest of the herd (presumably younger women).

    To finish up, I don’t understand how anyone (especially women) can accept the term, and I think maybe that when you were called a “cougar” it moved from being ageist/sexist to simply sexist…they obviously consider it derogatory.

    Donna

  18. Nihilunder August 26, 2008 at 7:36 AM #

    I’ve heard the term “cougar” many times, but never in a derogatory sense. In fact, a moderately attractive 30-40 something woman chasing men in their 20s is seen (by those I’ve talked to) as a jackpot. Personally, I see the widespread recognition of this phenomenon as one of the more positive developments in modern society.

  19. Nine Deuce August 26, 2008 at 7:42 AM #

    A jackpot in what sense? They get an “easy” older woman? They don’t have to work as hard for her as they do for women their own age? If it’s a positive development, why are cougars being portrayed as desperate and pathetic in popular media?

  20. Nihilunder August 26, 2008 at 7:50 AM #

    No, because there’s often an allure that surrounds older women. They’re every teen boy’s fantasy, for God’s sake. This allure is due to several qualities an older woman will possess: intelligence, greater skill at sex, an allowance for more direct and no-nonsense communication (teens and 20 somethings ARE rather known for petty BS…), and not spending all your money because she’s accomplished and has her own.

    I’m personally not aware of the portrayal you describe, outside of the general “person trying to pass as younger and failing miserably,” which far more often takes the form of a dirty old man.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that I haven’t seen much of it. Maybe I’m misinformed.

  21. Nine Deuce August 26, 2008 at 8:18 AM #

    The “allure” you allude to all seems to revolve around the benefits she can offer the man without him having to work for it.

  22. Nihilunder August 26, 2008 at 8:30 AM #

    No…but it looks like you’ve made up your mind already, so I’ll quit trying to explain.

  23. chlorophyll August 26, 2008 at 2:26 PM #

    In my opinion it seems as though there’s nothing particularly sexy about older women who habitually pursue younger men over men of their own age. It usually implies that the older woman is looking for an ego boost to reassure herself that she’s still attractive and desireable.

  24. Nine Deuce August 26, 2008 at 7:38 PM #

    I’m getting the following from a lot of the comments to this post: “I (or someone I know) wanted to fuck an older woman once, so there’s nothing wrong with the word cougar.”

  25. Sally August 26, 2008 at 8:39 PM #

    Erm, am I the only one who sees you defending women’s rights to sleep with men a lot younger then them kinda hypocritical? Normally I agree with you on everything, but if an older guy is looking for sex and only likes to sleep with women a lot younger then him, then that means he thinks that as women age they loose their fuckablity right? And that’s bad, obviously. So doesn’t that mean that these women are doing the same thing? That they think men loose their fuckability as they get older?

    I do personally think that the guy with a younger girl is more of a problem, but only because it’s so socially accepted, and it shouldn’t be. So, doesn’t the whole “cougar” thing show that as a society we value youth too much(yes, I know that youth is valued a /heck/ of a lot more in women)? Isn’t this an ageism issue? Or am I being completely dense about this?

  26. Nine Deuce August 26, 2008 at 9:21 PM #

    I’m not really defending or arguing against anyone’s “right” to hump anyone of any age, but rather pointing out that it’s weird that women get derided and dehumanized for it when men get… props (lame word).

    But yes, it does show that we value youth too much. So it is, as you say, an ageism issue as well.

  27. Sally August 26, 2008 at 9:31 PM #

    Ah, in that case I agree with you. I actually here the phrase “Sugar momma” a lot more. Which I don’t really mind as an insult as it’s just the female way of saying Sugar Daddy, so not derogatory to the female gender. If that makes sense.

  28. Skulligan August 28, 2008 at 1:29 AM #

    When I first learned the word ‘cougar’ I was a little wary of it, but figured it harmless. As I hear it more, I’ve realized it’s no good. I frequent a band message board that is completely immature and not at all PC. A lot of the guys on there act as though they love cougars, but it’s in a completely objectifying sort of way, almost like “oh, a new flavor! Cougar!” And what they love about cougars is their easiness, and eagerness, and not a lot else. They don’t appreciate that the woman in question is being strong in taking what she wants or any of that malarky. It’s definitely it’s own special stereotype with it’s own connotations aside from the obvious.
    I’ve also been noticing that the phrase gets thrown around a lot in situations that don’t even really fit the bill. You don’t have to fit the stereotype to necessarily be called a cougar. A couple years difference can get you that casual remark. You can be in your 30s and get that remark. =/ No me gusta.

  29. Skulligan August 28, 2008 at 1:35 AM #

    Sally, I think ‘Sugar Mama’ sounds better partly *because* it’s derived from the male word, ‘Sugar Daddy.’ So it’s it’s hard to go wrong with that, right?
    For me, I hear ‘sugar mama’ mostly as lighthearted and joking. Sugar anything sounds cute and silly to me.
    Cougar sounds predatory in my ears.

  30. D August 28, 2008 at 3:33 AM #

    They don’t appreciate that the woman in question is being strong in taking what she wants or any of that malarky.

    Because she isn’t? There’s something icky and desperate about someone that needs to chase after people 10+ years their junior for sex.

    It’s not “I’m so badass I can get anyone!”, it’s more… “I’m so pathetic, I can’t get people my own age, and have to prey on those too young and dumb and horny to care.”

    • elle September 29, 2009 at 6:40 PM #

      Why does it matter how old the adult person in question is, when you think about it. In addition, you’re forgetting that it’s not just the older women who are doing the chasing.

      Are the young men who are lusting after the older women also desperate? I take offense, as an older woman involved with a younger man 10 years my junior, that the woman somehow has to be desperate.

      I can tell you I don’t have ish to prove to anyone. If anybody is desperate it is the young women venturing out into the night with their skirts hiked up to their ***

  31. Jen August 28, 2008 at 6:46 AM #

    Let’s put it this way:

    Wanting to fuck a subset of humanity does not make the pet name for that subset okay. Commenters above me in various places really need to comprehend that fairly obvious point before they assume an intellectually superior tone.

    Furthermore, cougar is an insult for the reason that it implies that a woman is too old to get the “cultured” mature older-types. I worked in a combination summer-camp health club for many years, and most of the male counselors noticed that the female gym rats in this overpriced Scottsdale health club were women in their 40s or above that dressed, and acted, like they were 20 (and a shallow 20, because I can’t think of any time I would wear shorts that emblazoned my ass with “Hot Stuff”). When my male coworkers would identify a “cougar”, he was typically saying one of many things, either explicitly or by implication:
    – She was too old to be conventionally attractive
    – Her supposed goal of appearing younger was failing
    – She is pathetic, shallow, and immature
    – She probably is a gold-digger, and cheats on her husband whilst spending his money
    – Various body parts (her face, nose, boobs) must be fake
    – Her fashion sense is deplorable
    – I’d fuck her, but I wouldn’t admit to anything else
    – She is incapable of relating to men her own age, and so “preys” on younger men (ironically, it was always the counselors that approached the women, not the women themselves, and it was the counselors that preyed on the women for presents and sex, and then dumped them)
    – She likes to be treated like a sex object and a porn star

    Basically, a “cougar” is everything that a younger woman once was (something to use), only way past the expiration date so you can’t marry her and feel vaguely threatened by her age, even though she goes to great lengths to minimize it.

  32. Renee August 28, 2008 at 5:49 PM #

    I am late to this conversation but I had to throw in my two cents. I have hated the term cougar since I first heard it. You are quite right to point out that it has no male equivalent. It is completely representative of the idea that men get sexier as they age and women get desperate and lose value. You can really see this when you compare how the media treated the age difference between Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas vs Demi Moore and Ashton Coucher.

  33. Shatatata August 29, 2008 at 12:50 AM #

    Being called ‘dehumanizing’ animal names is unique to women?

    How many women are called:

    Pig
    Ox (as in dumb as an ox)
    Sloth
    Jackass
    etc…

    Parasitic (not really an animal, but a TYPE of animal…which includes many many species)

    There are animal names that guys get called that are derogatory. Ever stop to consider that inequality extends into both sexes in different ways?
    I refuse to take a side in this debate, but I will urge everybody on this board to consider that there are two sides to every coin.

  34. G August 29, 2008 at 1:27 AM #

    Okay, dehumanizing is bad, I agree — but men do get called animal (or worse) names. How about ape or troll? Both of those seem to fit the idea of disgusting through no fault of their own.

    Or, if you want to coin a name for men that is similar to cougar, why not choose an animal that is known for being a predator wannabe that is too weak to make its own kills: a jackal.

  35. chefmaven August 29, 2008 at 2:06 AM #

    Oh Meow!

  36. Mary August 29, 2008 at 3:30 AM #

    I think that you have a different view of what a cougar truly is. Growing up in an fairly well to do LA suburb I see a lot of single older women going out to bars. These are not the older women you define as being successful career women, but instead are women who have done nothing with their lives and are fresh out of a divorce, in which they have received much of their ex-husbands money. These women then decide to group up with their other divorced friends, whose only significant daytime activity is going to the gym, wearing clothes their teenage daughters would wear and pancaking their faces with makeup.

    What you have failed to realize is that these women dehumanize themselves by acting this way. They do have other alternatives, but they decide that they want a hot, younger replacement like their ex-husband has probably already found. These are women who are in their fifties trying to act like they are 25.

  37. Jofesius August 29, 2008 at 4:16 AM #

    Just stumbledupon this blog and have to say I am a bit confused. Your rules state that you won’t enter discussions with people who are obviously not going to change their minds, yet you come across as incredibly dogmatic. You defend this dogmatism with the claim that you are highly educated and therefore smarter than other people, yet seem to ignore that other people may also be educated, or even just thoughtful people. You claim not to be a radical yet want to introduce rape laws that would place the burden of proof on the accused and would result in castration as punishment.
    Now I’m not saying for a minute that I disagree with everything you say. I would consider myself a male feminist and, as a high school teacher, nothing makes me more upset to see the was that girls feel they must sexualise themselves to seek approval. Nonetheless, there seems to be a deep thread of anger throughout your blog that has clouded your perspective of reality.
    To equate calling a woman a cougar with terrorism is just illogical and completely devalues the experiences of people who have experienced terrorism or who live in societies rules by people who actually are terrorists. To compare an American woman being called a cougar by some drunk yob in a bar with an Afghan woman who is publically beaten for showing her ankle is offensive.
    Your absolute hatred of the patriarchy means you find gender power relations in everything, even where they don’t exist and leads you to stereotype and label men in a way that can only be described as incredibly sexist.
    It reminds me of a discussion on feminism I had at uni. An extreme feminist was going on about the overt oppression of women in our society, when as physically disabled male student (disabled to the point of needing a 24 hour carer) said that he didn’t think women had it as bad as this person was making out. She turned on him and started shouting “Just you try to spend one day as a woman and then you will understand.”
    Her ability to see inequality in society had blinded her of her ability to see the vast equality between men and women that does exist.
    Is it not possible that your brand of feminism is doing the same?

  38. Jagoff August 29, 2008 at 4:30 AM #

    Men come up with derogatory terms for everything. If you live and breathe, male or female, there is an insulting generalization for you. Most of male culture is about showing how much power one has and how powerless everyone else is. You’re not being derided for being female, you’re being derided because you’re there. If you went up to any other man in that bar who wasn’t a part of the “truckers” group of friends and said something snide along the lines of look at that (tool, wanna-be, poser, dickweed, testical shitting rectal wart or any other negative term) they would agree with you and join you in a hearty laugh at him.

    Also why bother getting so upset about what a bunch of hick impostors, frat boys or jocks or whatever group you want to lump young guys into thinks of older women sleeping with younger men. Are you looking to be victimized by a term some morons throw about? Why not try to find some fun people to hang out with, or a guy you like, or just go screw whoever you want? Who gives a shit?

  39. betty August 29, 2008 at 5:14 AM #

    You have a right to be annoyed. I just thought I’d add that. Especially after the last comment…

  40. Rebekah August 29, 2008 at 6:02 AM #

    I would much rather be called a cougar than the male equivalent “cradle robber” or “dirty old man”. I think it is an empowering phenomenon that says that women are still sexual beings past the age of 30 or 40. I think the woman who wrote this was just insulted that someone she was trying to mock called her old and thought she was hitting on them and rejected her.

  41. thegnu August 29, 2008 at 2:05 PM #

    I know I’m probably in line for being labeled a misogynist or apologist, but I’ve heard cougar a bit on the internets and in person. I’ve heard it from people talking about somebody else or about themselves, and I never heard it in a negative context.

    Also, in my experience, young guys don’t fuck older women because they’re useless. They fuck older women because a)often, young women are lying to them and to themselves about what they want, b)older women know what they want, and c)older women are more knowledgeable.

    Of all the women I’ve slept with, most of the young ones were flighty and extremely unclear about their intentions, and most of the old ones were stable and generous (emotionally and energetically). My experience has been that younger women I’ve dated call themselves self-sufficient even when I’m handling their problems for them and footing 75% of the bills. Older women tend to have matured a bit.

    There’s more to “no nonsense” than “easy”.

    I’d like to point out that you’re the one calling old women worthless. If someone you have so much contempt for calls you a cougar in a derogatory fashion, take it in context. For example, Jews get called Jews (the racial designator) or *Jews* (the stereotype).

    They’re homophones. Maybe different definitions of the same word. Whatever.

  42. thegnu August 29, 2008 at 2:09 PM #

    also, fwiw, women get props for experimenting with bisexuality, whereas men get their faces pounded in.

  43. Allison August 29, 2008 at 2:17 PM #

    I don’t think you understand the term…
    Cougars aren’t just any woman over thirty who dates a younger guy… they’re the equivalent of the old guy at the bar who gets super drunk at starts leering at young girls and getting way too close to them saying suggestive things.
    They’re the older women who are trying *desperately* and kind of pathetically to look like they’re 22 and drunkenly falling all over the college sophomores in their way-too-tight pants.
    Older women can date any younger guy they want, but if they’re being a creep about it, they’re gonna get called names.

    Sorry you got called one, obviously someone made a mistake. But it’s no different than if the guy had overheard you saying something that, out of context, *sounded* really derogatory and called you a racist.

  44. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 6:58 PM #

    Ha! This is what I get when the random public gets hold of something I’ve written.

  45. Skulligan August 29, 2008 at 9:36 PM #

    “I would much rather be called a cougar than the male equivalent ‘cradle robber’ or ‘dirty old man’.” -Rebekah
    I’ve heard females referred to as cradle robbers. Just sayin’. It’s not a strictly male term as cougar is female, nor is it as specific in its connotation. And dirty old man is a pretty generalized term, not just for those dating younger girls, but any seemingly unsavory sort of older dude. So I wouldn’t call them equivalent.

  46. Skulligan August 29, 2008 at 9:39 PM #

    “Older women can date any younger guy they want, but if they’re being a creep about it, they’re gonna get called names.”
    This word is getting thrown around a lot more than that though. Demi Moore is considered a cougar, right? Or no? And she’s not leering at all the young dueds. She’s just dating Ashton Kutcher. (still? right?)
    I don’t keep up with this crap.

  47. J.C. August 29, 2008 at 10:33 PM #

    I am simply agast at your level of self loathing – well gives you something to take pride in.

  48. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 10:44 PM #

    I’m simply aghast at your poor spelling, lack of sense, and ignorance of proper punctuation.

  49. Spectator August 29, 2008 at 10:47 PM #

    So you saw a guy with a trucker hat and a beard who you describe as “stupid, drunk, mouth-breathing, bald, old asshole” you went out of your way to go tell him he looked stupid then got offended when his friend made a gesture?

    You can call people “bald dickfore” but get offended by such terms as “cougar” ?

    (Also a beard to rival ZZ Top doesn’t come as part of a kit overnight, even if the rest of his outfit shouts “I’m a tool.”)

    I’m not telling you where to direct you anger, but I have to ask where all the anger comes from? For someone so educated and centered you sure are off balance.

    Your post flip flops from being offensive about being at an asshole trivia party to being defensive about losing it with lame excuses like you didn’t know the answer to the question. Offensive about a trucker-hipster then handing him the keys to your psyche by getting all upset about some side comment.

    If I’m at some lame party and some tool makes a comment to me that I don’t like I have the ovaries to realize that his opinion isn’t valuable.

    Its a funny thing the more I hear feminists talk about how men put them down, the more it sounds like they are giving more and more weight to men’s opinions. If men are so worthless and inferior to your intellect and womanhood why do you put so much value on what they have to say?

  50. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 10:54 PM #

    Dude, are you serious? You’ve got the two characters wrong, and you clearly didn’t understand what I was saying.

    Thanks, everyone, for telling me I’m “off balance” because I don’t like being degraded by strangers. I’ll tell you where the anger comes from. It comes from living for thirty years with being treated like I’m less human than men are, and having to deal with the fact that almost no one is willing to confront the fact that our society operates as it does. It comes from watching other women hurt themselves emotionally and physically to adhere to some unnatural standard of beauty and behavior that springs from the porn and fashion industries, which manufacture nothing but anti-woman propaganda. It comes from reading EVERY FUCKING DAY about a woman or child being raped, killed, abused, etc. and having nothing happen to the man who did it. It comes from having to listen to stupid asshole men who think that because some woman hurt their feelings that they’re just as oppressed as we are and that women have nothing to complain about and should shut the fuck up, cook them some dinner, and open our legs. It comes from being told that if a bunch of assholes women ought to hate don’t want to fuck them, they’re worthless as human beings. It comes from having to be female in the same context that Hooters, Maxim, Hustler, Girls Gone Wild, and Axe commercials exist. It comes from the fact that I, for engaging in the same behavior men engage in every single day with no opprobrium attached, can be reduced to a disgusting stereotype.

    Me calling these guys names doesn’t equate to them fucking with me, because men are always human beings, and because they are the ones with the power in this society. Or didn’t you READ what I wrote?

    • elle September 29, 2009 at 7:40 PM #

      Here, motherf*king here. I am angry for the same reasons you are. Don’t forget the latest offense agains women: the Lingerie League.

  51. Spectator August 29, 2008 at 11:04 PM #

    What did I get wrong? You went to tell a guy dressed up as a trucker that he looked like a tool and his friend made a “cougar” gesture.

    “I decided to go tell the guy I was really impressed with his kit and that he should definitely keep the look up, no matter what anyone says. Apparently, though, my sarcasm didn’t make its way through and some bald dickfore that was hanging out with the guy took my completely backhanded compliment to mean I was interested in the faux motorboatin’, deer huntin’, Jim Beam swillin’ trucker. The bald guy made some hand signal”

    If I was so afraid of being degraded by strangers I wouldn’t approach them and make sarcastic remarks.

  52. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 11:09 PM #

    Yeah, exactly. If I want to avoid being degraded, I should modify my behavior. Um… fuck that.

    Did you not get the part about this guy not getting that I was being sarcastic but thinking I was hitting on the dude? That means he was shaming me for talking to a dude that was younger than me.

  53. L August 29, 2008 at 11:10 PM #

    What you have failed to realize is that these women dehumanize themselves by acting this way.

    Ah, yes, right.

    So, if women are human and acting in human and natural ways (i.e., wanting to have sex with some young dude who’s hot and energetic), is it even possible for them to “dehumanize” themselves? Doesn’t “dehumanizing” another person take two people? Sounds to me like this person just doesn’t want to take responsibility for her own perspectives and judgments.

    ND, you should really watch that “deep thread of anger” because it’s obviously “clouding” your judgment. Wouldn’t want to offend teh menz with your (totally justified) anger and “cloudy judgment,” oh noez. Never mind that when a dude’s angry, no one tells him he’s being irrational.

    Mmmm, I love trolls on feminist blogs. They give me a reason not to keep up with homework. Keep it up, you fucking idiots!

  54. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 11:20 PM #

    Spectator – You can’t read. The post says I was at trivia night and that there were a lot of assholes there. It then says I lost because of a question I should have known. I even made fun of myself for that, so how am I defensive? Can’t anyone detect sarcasm, irony, satire, or even blunt fucking jokes anymore?

  55. Nine Deuce August 29, 2008 at 11:29 PM #

    gnu – Women get props for being bisexual because men like to watch women make out with each other as a show. Men do not like real lesbians, but rather women who will be with other women to turn men on. Men get beaten up for being bisexual because the assholes doing the beating are threatened that someone would choose to occupy what they see as a feminine role within a society in which women are basically hated.

  56. Spectator August 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM #

    If you want to go make sarcastic remarks to people thats cool, props. But if you go act snarky at someone then it doesn’t work out just the way you like you should take it in stride.

    Its like throwing rocks at a bees nest. You want to be able to throw rocks but no get stung. You know damn well what the bees will do, just like you know damn well what an adolescent male will do.

    “Did you not get the part about this guy not getting that I was being sarcastic but thinking I was hitting on the dude? That means he was shaming me for talking to a dude that was younger than me.”

    Maybe he knew exactly what you were doing and just wanted to piss you off ftw? I get that you think that he didn’t think you were being sarcastic, the fact of the matter is you blatantly said you approached him with the intention of being an asshole. You’re not innocent. You’re not the victim.

    It doesn’t say you went to trivia night and there were a lot of assholes there, it says that you went to an asshole party.

    Dehumanizing does take two people, thats the point. One person to be an asshole and the other person to care what they are saying. You could take yourself out of that equation then theres just an asshole all by himself.

    But I digress… Yes women have had the short end of the stick for a long time, and by and large still do. We make less money for the same jobs. We are the victims of rape. I’m thankful I wasn’t born in the middle east and have to cover my entire body 24 hours a day. I’m thankful that I wasn’t born in Sub-Saharan Africa and didn’t have my clitoris cut off when I turned 12.

    My dad tried to hit my mom when I was away at horse camp once, and you know what? She called the cops. The first time. She didn’t make excuses or bitch about how powerless she was, she took some action. She didn’t give the bastard any power over her.

    I own a shotgun and I know how to use it. I carry a tazer if I know I am going someplace sketchy. At the same time you couldn’t pay me to go into Compton at night.

    At the same time I know whats important. If some loser in a bar calls me a name, I know enough to ignore it. If you really want to make some progress on the feminist front you have to be able see whats important and whats just a fun word to say. Do I get angry about a term, or do I get angry about the glass ceiling.

    If you get so upset about this retarded stuff it moves womens rights in the wrong direction. You come off as whiny, not strong or empowered.

  57. Nine Deuce August 30, 2008 at 12:33 AM #

    How, might I ask, do I remove myself from the situation? How do we opt out of the patriarchy? If you’ve got that figured out, please let us know, because there are a lot of people who’d like to join you.

    It must be nice to be in the position you are in, where you have so much agency and free will that you are immune to male abuse and discrimination within a social system dominated by men and their laws and culture. I consider myself a pretty resourceful and self-reliant person, but even I can’t get away from it all the time.

    Guess what? I can be angry at the glass ceiling and the term, because they’re both part of the same misogynistic system. Do you mind if people call women whores for the same behavior men get applauded for? If so, why’s that worse than cougar? I’m also interested to see that you, some random blog commenter, think you have more of a right to speak on behalf of the women’s movement than I do, despite the fact that I’ve probably spent more time thinking about gender issues and doing something about them this week than you have in your entire life.

    I sound whiny? I’m pissed off because I’m tired of being beaten over the head with women’s supposed inferiority every time I turn around. If you want to call my expressing that whining, go ahead, but you sound like a fucking MRA. Next I suppose you’ll call me hysterical.

  58. Spectator August 30, 2008 at 1:10 AM #

    There are downsides to any situation. There are definite upsides to being a woman as well. I don’t want to stop being a woman. I can’t make the glass ceiling disappear, but I can do this… I can take a hard look at my life, decide what my goals are and work to achieve them. Thats all anyone can really do.

    One of my first goals was to learn not to be pissed off at my situation, and this is not limited to gender issues. I’m still working on this but I have learned that one has to make do with what one has where one is at. There’s different ways to look at everything. Sure our society and the world at large tends to be patriarchal, but even if it was a matriarchal structure I still wouldn’t be president. I still wouldn’t be rich. I still wouldn’t be in charge of it all. So I decided I am in charge of myself thats all. I’m not in charge of anyone else, and no one is in charge of me. All that being said there is still gravity.

    So what are my goals? Family, healthy relationships, understanding, dare I say it the old cliche of love. All that on my own terms. There’s nothing standing in the way of my achieving that. Sorry I know these don’t sound like typical feminist type goals, but I assure you I will fight tooth and nail to keep my freedoms. I’m working as an engineer, a predominately male field, and I do well, but I only do it as a means of income. I work to support my life, not the other way around. I guess I don’t feel like I am trapped in a patriarchal society because I live in my own microcosm.

    At the same time I recognize the limitations that are set on women everyday. I live in my own world but I recognize that it really is part of the world at large. I want gender and race distinctions to go away. It won’t be anytime soon, but I can do my part to keep things moving in that direction. Anger isn’t the way to make things better. On a personal scale its picking the correct battles, if some tool in a bar calls me a whore it only speaks of his own character. If my boss were to call me a whore there would be hell to pay with HR and/or a lawsuit.

    I’ve learned its impossible to change other people the way you want them to change, but I can change myself for the better. Just like Gandhi right? Be the change that you want to see in the world. Women won’t be able to change men, or the advertising companies or anything unless we learn to change ourselves by ignoring the undesirables.

    On a personal level, I can work to find the right partner, only associate with people worth my time.

    I do think often on gender issues. I think on many issues. I care about womens issues. I also care about the suspension of civil liberties by the federal government, and the economy, and the war. There are so very many things wrong that all I can do to stay sane is sort out what matters and what doesn’t. Then try and figure out what it is that I can change.

  59. Nine Deuce August 30, 2008 at 1:21 AM #

    Yet you want to come and tell me how to spend my energies? Maybe I think the best hope for change is to urge people to rethink their cultural attitudes about gender. In fact, I think that’s the only hope for change. So what I do is use this forum that I have to point out some of the problems that gender cause, and to tell people why treating women like second-class citizens and caricatures rather than human beings isn’t cool. I use a lot of satire and sarcasm in the process, but apparently that goes over people’s heads and all they get is that I’m “angry.” But who are you, or anyone else, to tell me what I ought to be angry about, anyway?

  60. Spectator August 30, 2008 at 1:23 AM #

    I’m not telling you what issues to care about, I’m saying anger itself is a stumbling block.

  61. Spectator August 30, 2008 at 1:26 AM #

    Oh and for the record I’m a male rights activist just as much as a female rights activists. Everyones rights are being trampled these days.

  62. Nine Deuce August 30, 2008 at 1:27 AM #

    Not for me, but thanks for the paternalistic concern for my well-being. I understand that our government is fucking everyone over in some sense these days, but if you truly believe men are suffering as much as women in the grand scheme of things, get thee over to an MRA blog. Us radical feminists, who have a grip on reality, know better.

  63. Spectator August 30, 2008 at 1:34 AM #

    Men definitely don’t have it as bad but there are a few areas where men get dicked over, so in the interest of making things fair, why not make things fair.

    Also I’m not specifically concerned about your well being, but being irrationally pissed off makes you sound like an idiot and isn’t going to help the feminist movement.

    Caring is a maternal thing anyway.

  64. Nine Deuce August 30, 2008 at 1:42 AM #

    You’re killing me. Caring is a maternal thing? I thought you weren’t into gender roles.

    I’ve had enough of you. Giving women a hard time for being angered by being mistreated is something best left to stupid, misogynistic men. You do not sound like someone who actually gives a shit about whatever you call “the feminist movement,” so quit trying to tell me how best to further a cause I’ve dedicated a large part of my life to that you know dick about.

  65. D August 30, 2008 at 6:24 AM #

    Men do not like real lesbians, but rather women who will be with other women to turn men on.

    We don’t?

    My best friend on this planet is a lesbian. She’s also more my sister than my biological sister is.

    No, I have no interest, at all, in watching her make out with anyone. That’d be like watching family members fuck.

  66. Jofesius August 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM #

    meanwhile you still havent replied to my post. Is there a reason? I update this site half-daily and get nothing… I’m going for a hike in the mountains with my wife, who will not be raped by me (despite our patriachal arrangement known as marriage). Afterwards I’ll do the housework because I always do.

  67. Nine Deuce August 31, 2008 at 9:11 PM #

    Jofesius – Where did you get the idea that I’m required to respond to you? If you’re so educated and thoughtful, why can’t you detect irony, satire, or thought experiments (see my references to terrorism and Deuce’s Law, both of which you mentioned, for examples of what I’m talking about)? You’ve read maybe 10% of what I’ve written, yet you think you know what I do and don’t take account of across the spectrum of progressive ideas.

  68. Jofesius September 1, 2008 at 9:14 AM #

    Your ideas do not seem to present a spectrum of ideas yourself. Your arguments come from one perspective and ignore other theoretical arguments. For example, there is no consideration of the possibility that some gender roles may have an evolutionary basis.
    I just thought that it was interesting that you haven’t replied to any of my arguments. I’m still waiting.

  69. Nine Deuce September 1, 2008 at 10:45 PM #

    Dude, you clearly are coming here with the ridiculous idea that it’s up to me to clarify feminists’ position on supposed evolutionary bases for gender roles, and you are mistaken. It’s not my job to explain that to you. If you care to know, look the shit up. And if you think you’re bringing up something new, you’re kidding yourself.

  70. Chris September 3, 2008 at 6:45 PM #

    “Cougar”… has no counterpart that can be leveled at a dude.

    True, but there is a unisex term, and more recently a term for the reverse.

    In order “Cradle-robber,” and “Grave-robber.”

    This implies that anyone who dates a younger person (male or female) is a child molester, and that anyone who dates an older person is a necrophiliac.

  71. A Man September 4, 2008 at 2:14 PM #

    Ok, so you don’t like the term “cougar”, fair enough, it’s not really flattering. However, you are holding men to an equally uncomplimentary double standard. Let me start with a quote:

    “UPDATE: Some people have been giving me a hard time for making fun of these two dudes and then getting mad at them for insulting me. The difference is twofold: my making fun of them does not deny their humanity, but rather their judgment; and my insults all revolved around things they have control over (not their gender or age, but their foolish fashion and tattoo choices). Duh.”

    So your insults revolve merely around their judgments? Allow me to quote again:

    “This stupid, drunk, mouth-breathing, bald, old asshole conceived of himself as a bigger deal than me, as higher in the hierarchy than I am, just because he has a wiener ”

    Idk, for some reason, these two quotes don’t seem to synch up, and yet they both exist in your post. I suppose vitriole on the internet is cool and all, but maybe you’d be cooler if you weren’t a creatinous biotch. You are either the angry loud mouth at the bar, or the one who sits in the corner brooding over a virgin daqauiri. Good luck.

  72. Nine Deuce September 4, 2008 at 9:42 PM #

    He was stupid, he was bald. I don’t see where the problem is, unless you are saying being stupid and bald are bad things. Har har. But really, there is a qualitative difference. You must remember, women in our culture are seen as accessories to men, not humans, and are thus valued for their appearances and sexual propriety as men define that term. Even if I call this guy a stupid, bald asshole, he’s still a human being in the broad sense of the term. He was trying to shame me, to reduce my status relative to his own by aiming a dehumanizing term at me. The terms I aimed at him, whether I’d like them to or not, don’t have the dehumanizing potential those he used on me do. But I know you aren’t as stupid as you act, and that you are just pretending not to understand that simple fact, just like D is.

    In any case, you don’t get to be a part of the discussion, because you’ve shown that your arguments are based on misogyny rather than any sort of thought (e.g. “maybe you’d be cooler if you weren’t a creatinous biotch”).

    By the way, what does “creatinous” even mean? Does it mean I take too much creatine? I don’t even lift weights, dude. The word you might be looking for is cretinous, but I’d give some more thought to which participant in this conversation it applies to if I were you. Also, it’s beyotch. Stupid. Are you bald, too?

    And who’s the angry loudmouth here? Maybe the guy calling people creatinous biotches? Maybe you should switch to virgin daiquiris yourself, bro.

    I know, everyone I know: sick burn!

  73. L September 4, 2008 at 11:15 PM #

    I would just like to say: Nine Deuce is true love.

    I was totally thinking about creatine when I read “creatinous”.

  74. Screaming Lemur September 5, 2008 at 2:41 AM #

    You know what I love? Random asshats who come on here and post stupid/misogynist shit, and then end with “Good luck” or “have a nice life” or something equally inane. Because they just stung you so hard, Nine Deuce, they just know you’re curled up in bed sobbing after that because they totally got you, amirite?
    Sooooooo stupid, it’s almost cute.

  75. CJ September 16, 2008 at 3:34 AM #

    I guess I didn’t get the memo that turning 30 meant you were a fucking corpse whose only purpose in life is to wipe asses and make dinner.

    Shrug.

    Who cares how old anyone is, ever? Why does that have any bearing on how attractive or ‘sexy’ one is? Someone, for fuck’s sake, please explain that to me in any way that makes sense.

    Yep. That’ll happen. Right after annoying, arrogant, mindless dickspurts stop pestering feminist bloggers because they JUST CAN’T STAND women having the last word/being right on anything for one motherfucking second. Always have to be on top, always have to be superior. Always have to be smarter and more thoughtful and more everything.

    I am so fucking sick of the massive, unexamined entitlement behind this nonsensical, nuisance behavior. We all are, I know. Women are sick to fucking death of it.

    Not that that makes a damn bit of difference to people who see women as ego-boosting THINGS to either own, brag about/objectify, fuck, socially denigrate, or rape and kill.

    Yep. It’s so fucking fun to be a woman. Not a single one of these asshairs would ever want to switch places with any one of us…yet it’s soooooo wonderful to be a woman.

    Uh-huh. And this is so new, so cutting-edge, all of this cutting us down and calling us loony because we say things the penis-wrinkles find upsetting. So never been done before.

    Seriously, the term ‘cougar’ is used by people who really can’t handle any sort of female sexual agency. The same people who call sexually active women ‘sluts’, ‘whores’, ‘easy’. The same bastards who cheat on their wives/girlfriends with 18 year olds and prostitutes (who then whine and cry foul when said wives find out and take their asses for half), and subsequently abandon their families. The same jerks who stand in big groups on the street and yell demeaning, threatening things to every woman that passes by (I used to know an absolute tool who would SCREAM “How much?” to random women from car windows…total fucking creep). The same fuckers who find rape jokes funny, ignore anything out of a woman’s mouth that isn’t physically or mentally masturbating him, and who bail on the mothers of their children.

    In other words, complete losers. In other words, well over half of the male (shit, female) population.

    Fuck them indeed. Not with someone else’s pussy.

    Look, people…everyone has a right to decide whom they want to romp naked with. Men, women, and everyone in between and outside the stupid boxes. It doesn’t render them inhuman or horrible. Sex with ourselves or anyone else of whatever (legal) age is just that…sex.

    I’ll never get over how ruffled people’s feathers can get over such a mundane, normal, natural thing.

    It’s just. fucking. SEX. Grow up and get the fuck over yourselves.

    And get laid, by whoever (consensually). It’s fun.

    CJ.

  76. Cee Cee October 16, 2008 at 10:50 PM #

    This issue, of stigmatizing an older woman, reverts back to our biological basis. Our species are designed to procreate with each other so that our species can survive. A man is thus attracted to a female when she starts having her period because he knows that she is able to procreate.

    Men, however, have been producing sperm since birth. They can impregnate a girl at any time in their life. A woman, only has her fertile years to procreate, from the ages, on average, of 11-55. So unfortunately, though a woman can breed life, which is probably the most skillful thing a person could do in regards to maintaining the species, she is also ‘ranked’ socially based on her ability to do so, such ranking being her age.

    So why aren’t men more attracted to women when they’re 40 as opposed to 20? These women are still able to procreate, their eggs haven’t deserted their bodies yet. You could argue that biologically, they’re still on the same playing field as these young ladies. However, nature has taken a far greater toll on the 40 something’s body, in most cases, than it has on the 20 something’s.

    The older woman’s body starts to sag, wrinkle, and is closer to the eventual point of shutting down, a thought and image that is not the most enticing image to imagine. Unfortunately for the older female, many of the single men who are her age are out looking for younger girls whose bodies, emotions, and minds haven’t reached such point in time because biologically and socially it is a more attractive venture.

    There are many deeper issues here. Our obsession with youth obviously stems from our nature to procreate. And a woman, at the age of 40 who is still able to attract a man, is yes, very much like a cougar. It’s tough work with all of the competition from younger, more biologically attractive females and all the flack they get from men their age. It can be a vicious struggle, a cat-fight if you will. So props to the cougars when they score an able-bodied, high sperm-count younger male whose sex drive most likely matches theirs quite well. It is a win that they’ve deserved.

    There will always be labels and stigmas attached to every type of person out there. This is a society that is immensely insecure and fearful. Insecure about our image because we know that we are closer to the inevitable end point of our lives each day. Fearful because we want to repress that inevitability to the best of our abilities but know we will never fully be able to do so.

  77. isme October 17, 2008 at 3:08 AM #

    As well as biology, being in a relationship with someone 20 years your junior (say) is generally going to tilt the balance of power in your favour.

  78. thegnu October 31, 2008 at 11:57 PM #

    Jesus. I just came back because I wondered about further responses, and ND, I just want to say that you have no idea about who I am, who my brother is, and who my friends are. I don’t think radical feminists have a better grasp on reality particularly any more than radical anti-abortionists. Except the feminists don’t blow up abortion clinics. The irrational hatred an pretending that there are even clearly-defined lines is a big part of the problem.

    I’ve noticed that it’s kind, open men who get harmed by the anger of the radical feminist movements. The douchebags just say, “Heh, bitches,” and go on their merry way.

    I’m not saying women aren’t subjugated to some degree (or even to a greater degree than men), but the majority of male Americans have their genitals significantly mutilated. Significantly desensitized. Then, people wonder why these men who have to squeeze their dicks so that they can come might have a violent relationship to sexuality. Ha. If what you and I want is sexual freedom and equality for the sexes, I don’t see why you should direct anger generically at people who share my genitals. It seems sexist.

  79. Nine Deuce November 1, 2008 at 12:09 AM #

    Where did any of that come from?

  80. sw December 9, 2008 at 1:03 AM #

    i’m not sure what you meant by “women who … hose around with younger men” but i didn’t like the sound of it, so i looked it up on urban dictionary. sure enough:

    “4. hose – A girl that is a bit of a Slurry. Gets used by lots of people and is easily wet.
    Wow did u see Kellie on the weekend? what a Hose!”

    Seems to me to be right in line with cougar, whore, and all the other words you listed. But maybe you didn’t mean it like that.

    Just a thought. Other than that, it’s an interesting post. Thanks.

    • Nine Deuce December 9, 2008 at 2:29 AM #

      It’s a verb, and it just means to have sex with. I generally don’t look at Urban Dictionary because it’s populated with misogynistic 11-year-olds who can’t read or write.

  81. Observation... January 9, 2009 at 6:46 AM #

    I know this is off topic a bit (and I will mention that I thoroughly enjoyed reading this) but in my opinion fucking for the sake of fucking anyone regardless of age is a physically pleasurable but largely empty experience that dehumanizes both partners (to some extent) because each person is using the other person as something for physical gratification.

    I realize that it happens frequently though. It would be nice if women could get away with it as much as men seem to without being labeled as desperate, sluts, or (in the case of an age difference) cougars.

  82. The Beautiful Kind April 9, 2009 at 9:14 PM #

    I swear you are the feminist version of Maddox! Love how thought provoking and funny this blog is.

    I’m a total cougar/slut/whore, AND I love being fucked, so I’m down.

    • Nine Deuce April 9, 2009 at 10:36 PM #

      I’m way smarter than Maddox and my punctuation and spelling are better than his. Plus, I’m sure I smell better. Also, he stole a fucking idea from me. If you want to know the story, let me know.

      • isme April 10, 2009 at 2:45 PM #

        “I’m way smarter than Maddox and my punctuation and spelling are better than his. Plus, I’m sure I smell better. ”

        Before someone else beats me to it, that’s just cause you’re the female version :)

      • Imaginary September 29, 2009 at 12:23 AM #

        Ooo, what did he steal from you? He’s a dick.

  83. Imaginary September 29, 2009 at 12:21 AM #

    I doubt that anyone I’ve ever met is reading this, but “To anyone I’ve ever called a cougar, I’m sorry. You’re not worthless, and you are awesome. Take some candy and glitter, because candy and glitter are awesome too. Unless you don’t like candy and glitter in which case, just take something you actually want.”

    Okay, now I feel a bit better I think.

  84. Immir March 14, 2010 at 1:58 PM #

    Always hated the term ‘gold-digger’. It’s like, BAD for a woman to go out with a guy to ‘get’ something from him i.e: money BUT it’s fine for the old guy to go out with a young girl for her body.

    SHE’S the one in the wrong. Our cultutre likes to remind women that we can’t have the same things as men- can’t even get anything without being punished.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. links for 2008-12-21 « Shut Up, Sit Down - December 21, 2008

    [...] If you’ve ever called anyone a cougar, fuck you. "“Cougar,” like “whore,” “slut,” “bitch,” “nag,” “ho,” “skank,” “cunt,” etc. (golly-GEE, there are so many), has no counterpart that can be leveled at a dude. I mean, you could call a dude any one of those terms, but it wouldn’t carry the connotations, the baggage, or the power it does when directed at a woman. It’s kind of like the difference between the n-word and “cracker.” You can call a white guy a cracker, but it’s not going to sting too bad when he can reply, “Whatever. I still run everything.” There’s no power to dehumanize in calling a white guy a cracker, because white guys, being as they are the default humans, are always human beings. Similarly, you could call a dude who dates younger women a cougar (or something similarly stupid), but you’d have a hard time bumming his party out because being able to hump younger women is, like, the ultimate indicator of prestige among men." [...]

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