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	<title>Comments on: Sluts!</title>
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		<title>By: Female Competition &#124; Opinion &#124; Lip Magazine</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-19977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Female Competition &#124; Opinion &#124; Lip Magazine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2011 03:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-19977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Deuce over at Rage Against the Man-chine wrote that “Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Deuce over at Rage Against the Man-chine wrote that “Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Slut-Shaming &#171; Mediamakers, You Fail</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-19970</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Slut-Shaming &#171; Mediamakers, You Fail]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 04:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-19970</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] First of all, why slut-shame? Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male approval in a patriarchy that defines women’s worth by their physical attractiveness and limits their ability to distinguish themselves by other means. (source) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] First of all, why slut-shame? Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male approval in a patriarchy that defines women’s worth by their physical attractiveness and limits their ability to distinguish themselves by other means. (source) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Good Girls, Bad Girls: Double Standards and Slut-Shaming &#124; Good Vibrations Magazine</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-18362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Good Girls, Bad Girls: Double Standards and Slut-Shaming &#124; Good Vibrations Magazine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 04:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-18362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] engage in the practice more than men. Nine Deuce (Rage Against The Man-chine) wrote in her blog, Sluts: &#8220;Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] engage in the practice more than men. Nine Deuce (Rage Against The Man-chine) wrote in her blog, Sluts: &#8220;Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lizor</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-14595</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lizor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 15:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-14595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know I keep bringing up this book, but Gilligan&#039;s Birth of Pleasure gives a very useful analysis of the implications of Patriarchy, which she defines as:

&quot;... an anthropological term, describing families and cultures that are headed by fathers. It is a hierarchy or priesthood in which a father or some fathers control access to truth or power or God or knowledge - to salvation in whatever form it takes. As such, patriarchy is an order of domination, privileging some men over others and subordinating women. But in dividing men from men and from women, in splitting fathers from mothers and daughters and sons, patriarchy also creates a rift in the psyche, dividing everyone from parts of themselves. &quot; (P.7)

She discusses how, within this structure, women are reduced to images and thus their humanity erased.  She writes:

&quot;Anger and envy among women is inescapable in a world where one woman is seen as replacing another. If one woman can replace another, then neither woman is loved.&quot; (P.139)

The whole question of slut-shaming is a tough one for me. As a woman who is generally too busy to fuck around much with my hair and makeup and shoes that hurt, I do feel threatened at the prospect of being discarded or erased and replaced by someone who is playing the role of a 2-d pleasure-giver and ego-stroker for men. It&#039;s a sort of fight-or-flight response and yeah, sure it&#039;s an indicator of my own insecurity. I readily admit that.

The other thing about all of this rationalism is that many of us, myself included, are rape/incest survivors working through PTSD/trauma. In my case I was raped by a pornographer (I was just a vulnerable 15-year-old at a party, not one of his &quot;models&quot;) and anyone who is presenting themselves as something that resembles his models brings back that experience of having someone shit on my soul and then throw me in the trash. I feel like I am fighting for my life and it&#039;s hard to hold on to my rationality under those circumstances. I do OK for the most part, but it takes an awful lot of effort.

Anyhow, these thoughts may not be the most coherent as I have a lot of raw emotion stuck to this topic. I am just saying that the whole question of &quot;slut-shaming&quot; runs extremely deep, for some of us to the very core of our identity and survival.



ND writes: &quot;I want women to have sexual freedom. I want us to get to decide who we want to have sex with, when we want to do it, how it should happen, and how often it should happen. I don’t want anyone coming and telling women that they can’t or shouldn’t do something that they want to do. Sex is private, our desires are unique, and no buttinskis should be coming around to tell us what we should desire to do in our private sex lives.&quot;

I could not agree more.  I will admit, however, that when my het male partner is approached by someone far far closer to the Bratz Doll &quot;ideal&quot; with the promise to massage his ego, never challenge him - certainly with suggestions that he examine his possible complicity with the patriarchy - in short, someone who, in a nutshell, offers the personal equivalent of one of those no-brainer packaged vacations, logically, I don&#039;t believe there&#039;s a threat because I know my guy is not about that. Instinctively, however, I feel threatened. 

I would like this to not be the case, but at this point in history, sadly, it is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I keep bringing up this book, but Gilligan&#8217;s Birth of Pleasure gives a very useful analysis of the implications of Patriarchy, which she defines as:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; an anthropological term, describing families and cultures that are headed by fathers. It is a hierarchy or priesthood in which a father or some fathers control access to truth or power or God or knowledge &#8211; to salvation in whatever form it takes. As such, patriarchy is an order of domination, privileging some men over others and subordinating women. But in dividing men from men and from women, in splitting fathers from mothers and daughters and sons, patriarchy also creates a rift in the psyche, dividing everyone from parts of themselves. &#8221; (P.7)</p>
<p>She discusses how, within this structure, women are reduced to images and thus their humanity erased.  She writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;Anger and envy among women is inescapable in a world where one woman is seen as replacing another. If one woman can replace another, then neither woman is loved.&#8221; (P.139)</p>
<p>The whole question of slut-shaming is a tough one for me. As a woman who is generally too busy to fuck around much with my hair and makeup and shoes that hurt, I do feel threatened at the prospect of being discarded or erased and replaced by someone who is playing the role of a 2-d pleasure-giver and ego-stroker for men. It&#8217;s a sort of fight-or-flight response and yeah, sure it&#8217;s an indicator of my own insecurity. I readily admit that.</p>
<p>The other thing about all of this rationalism is that many of us, myself included, are rape/incest survivors working through PTSD/trauma. In my case I was raped by a pornographer (I was just a vulnerable 15-year-old at a party, not one of his &#8220;models&#8221;) and anyone who is presenting themselves as something that resembles his models brings back that experience of having someone shit on my soul and then throw me in the trash. I feel like I am fighting for my life and it&#8217;s hard to hold on to my rationality under those circumstances. I do OK for the most part, but it takes an awful lot of effort.</p>
<p>Anyhow, these thoughts may not be the most coherent as I have a lot of raw emotion stuck to this topic. I am just saying that the whole question of &#8220;slut-shaming&#8221; runs extremely deep, for some of us to the very core of our identity and survival.</p>
<p>ND writes: &#8220;I want women to have sexual freedom. I want us to get to decide who we want to have sex with, when we want to do it, how it should happen, and how often it should happen. I don’t want anyone coming and telling women that they can’t or shouldn’t do something that they want to do. Sex is private, our desires are unique, and no buttinskis should be coming around to tell us what we should desire to do in our private sex lives.&#8221;</p>
<p>I could not agree more.  I will admit, however, that when my het male partner is approached by someone far far closer to the Bratz Doll &#8220;ideal&#8221; with the promise to massage his ego, never challenge him &#8211; certainly with suggestions that he examine his possible complicity with the patriarchy &#8211; in short, someone who, in a nutshell, offers the personal equivalent of one of those no-brainer packaged vacations, logically, I don&#8217;t believe there&#8217;s a threat because I know my guy is not about that. Instinctively, however, I feel threatened. </p>
<p>I would like this to not be the case, but at this point in history, sadly, it is.</p>
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		<title>By: What is &#8220;slut-shaming&#8221;? &#171; Finally, A Feminism 101 Blog</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-14586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What is &#8220;slut-shaming&#8221;? &#171; Finally, A Feminism 101 Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 05:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-14586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The first thing to realize when talking about women slut-shaming each other is that infighting among oppressed groups is a necessary part for keeping those groups oppressed; ergo women are encouraged, through internalized sexism, to distrust each other and fight for male approval. In other words: Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male approval in a patriarchy that defines women’s worth by their physical attractiveness and limits their ability to distinguish themselves by other means. [Nine Deuce (Rage Against the Man-chine): Sluts!.] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The first thing to realize when talking about women slut-shaming each other is that infighting among oppressed groups is a necessary part for keeping those groups oppressed; ergo women are encouraged, through internalized sexism, to distrust each other and fight for male approval. In other words: Slut-shaming is one of the chief ways that women attempt to compete with each other for male approval in a patriarchy that defines women’s worth by their physical attractiveness and limits their ability to distinguish themselves by other means. [Nine Deuce (Rage Against the Man-chine): Sluts!.] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Imaginary</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-10698</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Imaginary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-10698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I feel kind of bad. I used to call people sluts. I mean, usually men, because I thought that if men slept around a lot they were going to get funny diseases and that tickles me. &quot;Ha ha!&#039; I&#039;d say &#039;You slut, you got fungus all on your dick. You should scrape that off and live in a cave, you failure at life!&quot;

When I called girls &quot;sluts&quot; I felt bad. All the girl &quot;sluts&quot; I met I knew they were abused and I&#039;d read that sometimes abused people will sleep around to get attention. So I thought they were sluts because they felt really icky inside. I don&#039;t know what exactly this story means, but I didn&#039;t call them sluts out of maliciousness. Oh well. I&#039;m sorry anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel kind of bad. I used to call people sluts. I mean, usually men, because I thought that if men slept around a lot they were going to get funny diseases and that tickles me. &#8220;Ha ha!&#8217; I&#8217;d say &#8216;You slut, you got fungus all on your dick. You should scrape that off and live in a cave, you failure at life!&#8221;</p>
<p>When I called girls &#8220;sluts&#8221; I felt bad. All the girl &#8220;sluts&#8221; I met I knew they were abused and I&#8217;d read that sometimes abused people will sleep around to get attention. So I thought they were sluts because they felt really icky inside. I don&#8217;t know what exactly this story means, but I didn&#8217;t call them sluts out of maliciousness. Oh well. I&#8217;m sorry anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Nine Deuce</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-4164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nine Deuce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-4164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What does that even mean? Would you recommend that I act like an idiot who has no ability to understand others&#039; viewpoints? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does that even mean? Would you recommend that I act like an idiot who has no ability to understand others&#8217; viewpoints?</p>
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		<title>By: GowanusGuy</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-4162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GowanusGuy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-4162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[92: you try too hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>92: you try too hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Catwings</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-3254</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Catwings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 05:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-3254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again I&#039;m sure I&#039;m a little late to comment, but I did just recently stumble across this space full of free flowing ideas and I&#039;m still catching up a bit. 

&quot;However, I will ask anyone who claims stripping, porn, and other forms of prostitution are empowering whence they derive their empowerfulness, and whether that empowrfulness remains once the transaction has been concluded.&quot;

One of my best friends has worked as an escort. With her, I&#039;ve discussed her reasonings and feelings about what she did. Her opinion was along the lines of &quot;If he&#039;s stupid enough to pay me X amount of money for this, I&#039;m sure as hell going to take advantage of it.&quot; 
She derived empowerment from taking advantage of the kind of people who let her get away with such a thing.

 She was catering to male sexuality but the considerable amount of money she was making justified it to her. In a sense she was taking advantage of the system and found gratification in allowing her clients tendencies to cost them money, she finds it almost comical.

 I know for a fact she didn&#039;t receive personal enjoyment from it other than her love for manipulating people for money. I believe she (for the most part) detatched her own sexuality from their gratification. 

I&#039;ve taken part in activism for various causes which I feel strongly about and I&#039;ve come to the conclusion that most people are not open to change. I highly doubt that the type of man she catered to would change his view of women if she (or anyone) cared enough to take a different approach with these men.

 That&#039;s like trying to convince someone who raises beef cattle for a living to go vegan. Unless he can see immediate personal gratification from it, it&#039;s not going to happen.

 I certainly believe there are people who can change but for the most part, discussing the finer points of feminism with these men isn&#039;t going to sway them. I&#039;ve heard her say &quot;They&#039;re going to dish out cash to someone, why not let it be me?&quot;  Sounds like a hopeless perspective but truthfully some people just don&#039;t care about making a difference. They&#039;re more concerned with making money than &quot;the major social change.&quot; They&#039;re quite content with taking advantage of the way things are. (I&#039;m not saying one choice is right or wrong.)

As a side note I feel I should state I do not claim to be a feminist, nor am I incredibly familiar with the movement (or the apparent sub-movements or sub-classifications?) 

So far I am finding the use of feminist terminology to be somewhat self-defeating and tiresome. (Let&#039;s label ourselves in an attempt to stop being labeled?) And it&#039;s interesting that feminism seems to be so closely intertwined with semantics. ;)  Enough with the arguing about what kind of feminist one is and more with the getting things accomplished. 

That said, I find the issues and subject matter compelling. I&#039;m reading and learning, so please excuse the ignorance for now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m a little late to comment, but I did just recently stumble across this space full of free flowing ideas and I&#8217;m still catching up a bit. </p>
<p>&#8220;However, I will ask anyone who claims stripping, porn, and other forms of prostitution are empowering whence they derive their empowerfulness, and whether that empowrfulness remains once the transaction has been concluded.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of my best friends has worked as an escort. With her, I&#8217;ve discussed her reasonings and feelings about what she did. Her opinion was along the lines of &#8220;If he&#8217;s stupid enough to pay me X amount of money for this, I&#8217;m sure as hell going to take advantage of it.&#8221;<br />
She derived empowerment from taking advantage of the kind of people who let her get away with such a thing.</p>
<p> She was catering to male sexuality but the considerable amount of money she was making justified it to her. In a sense she was taking advantage of the system and found gratification in allowing her clients tendencies to cost them money, she finds it almost comical.</p>
<p> I know for a fact she didn&#8217;t receive personal enjoyment from it other than her love for manipulating people for money. I believe she (for the most part) detatched her own sexuality from their gratification. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve taken part in activism for various causes which I feel strongly about and I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that most people are not open to change. I highly doubt that the type of man she catered to would change his view of women if she (or anyone) cared enough to take a different approach with these men.</p>
<p> That&#8217;s like trying to convince someone who raises beef cattle for a living to go vegan. Unless he can see immediate personal gratification from it, it&#8217;s not going to happen.</p>
<p> I certainly believe there are people who can change but for the most part, discussing the finer points of feminism with these men isn&#8217;t going to sway them. I&#8217;ve heard her say &#8220;They&#8217;re going to dish out cash to someone, why not let it be me?&#8221;  Sounds like a hopeless perspective but truthfully some people just don&#8217;t care about making a difference. They&#8217;re more concerned with making money than &#8220;the major social change.&#8221; They&#8217;re quite content with taking advantage of the way things are. (I&#8217;m not saying one choice is right or wrong.)</p>
<p>As a side note I feel I should state I do not claim to be a feminist, nor am I incredibly familiar with the movement (or the apparent sub-movements or sub-classifications?) </p>
<p>So far I am finding the use of feminist terminology to be somewhat self-defeating and tiresome. (Let&#8217;s label ourselves in an attempt to stop being labeled?) And it&#8217;s interesting that feminism seems to be so closely intertwined with semantics. ;)  Enough with the arguing about what kind of feminist one is and more with the getting things accomplished. </p>
<p>That said, I find the issues and subject matter compelling. I&#8217;m reading and learning, so please excuse the ignorance for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Nine Deuce</title>
		<link>http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/07/28/sluts/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nine Deuce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rageagainstthemanchine.wordpress.com/?p=416#comment-2904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read my porn series.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read my porn series.</p>
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