I’ll say it again: Pornography hurts people. It destroys relationships, prevents people from developing healthy sex lives, cripples the sense of empathy, and generally hinders people’s ability to form the kinds of connections that make life interesting and worthwhile.
There are a lot of reasons not to use porn, but in this post I’ll stick to how it negatively affects people’s relationships and prevents people from developing the kinds of sexual relationships they hope to.
Women know most men watch porn. There are a few women who have absorbed the message that they are here to be used sexually to the point that they, too, get aroused by watching porn (more on this later), but most women are at least mildly bothered by pornography, whether they want to admit it out loud or not. A lot of women have been told so many times that men have some kind of “right” to use pornography that they will tolerate it in their relationships despite the fact that it hurts their feelings. Still other women will make it clear to their partners that they will not tolerate pornography in their relationships, only to find out after some time that their partner has been lying to them and using it anyway. Then there are the women who find men who will respect their wishes and not use pornography, but these women usually still worry that their partners’ previous use of pornography has created desires and expectations that they can’t or don’t want to fulfill.
I’ve never dated anyone who used porn openly in our relationship, but I have a sense of empathy, so I can tell you what it probably feels like. I know that a large majority of women in my mother’s generation tolerated the existence of Playboy, Penthouse, and Hustler in their bathrooms, but I never found such a magazine in my house as a child, and I’d like to think that the reason was that my father cared for my mother’s feelings and didn’t want to do something that would hurt her. Or maybe once I was born he began to look at the women in pornography as other men’s daughters. I never asked, but I do know that porn was not a part of my life while I was growing up and that I am glad it wasn’t. Other women grew up in houses where it was assumed that men had a “right” to look at images of naked women who weren’t their wives, so they expected their partners to do the same when they got older, even though they were just as uncomfortable with porn as their mothers were.
It isn’t jealousy that lies at the center of women’s aversion to porn. Men want to paint it in such a light because it removes the responsibility for the damage porn use creates from them and places it on their partners. That is patently dishonest and unfair, and places a double burden on the woman. Not only does she have to tolerate having her feelings ignored and her presence disrespected in her own home (or in her own relationship), but she has to feel guilty for her own natural discomfort and conceive of her own rightful vexation as a character flaw. That’s what pornography does to women: it brings a huge set of worrisome issues into their lives, then tries to blame them for the fact that they are bothered.
When women see pornography, whether they’ve thought about it or not, they instinctively recognize that the women they are seeing are not being treated like human beings, that they do not want to be treated like the women in porn are treated, that the men they have sex with might be looking at them the way they must look at the women in pornography, and that their partners might not ever be satisfied with them unless they allow themselves to be treated thusly. It is understandable that women would not wish to have their partners use pornography, considering these factors, but when they object, they’re told that they’re being catty and jealous, and that “boys will be boys,” which is something they’ll just have to live with. Think for a second about the mental turmoil that can cause. Men who use pornography in relationships are basically telling their partners that they care more about their bullshit “right” to use images of women being exploited sexually than they do about their partner’s emotional comfort in the relationship. It’s not only insensitive, but it’s also evidence of a disgustingly arrogant sense of entitlement.
It’s easy enough to empathize with women who have to deal with a partner who refuses to stop using porn despite the fact that it hurts her feelings. What about the woman who believes she’s in a relationship with a man who cares enough about her feelings to stop using porn, only to find out he’s been lying to her about it? Finding out someone has been using pornography and lying about it is akin to finding out they’ve been having an affair. It’s a betrayal in a very serious sense because it means that that person has decided that their desire to do something is more important than the negative impact it will have on their relationship and their partner’s feelings. A woman who discovers her partner has been lying to her about using porn comes to several disturbing realizations. First, she discovers that he cares more about his supposed “right” to use women’s bodies as masturbatory tools than he does about her feelings. Second, she realizes that he has been using women outside of the relationship in a sexual way by proxy. Third, she discovers that he does not see women, including her, the way she thought he did; once a woman discovers that her partner uses pornography, she has to admit that they never saw eye-to-eye on women’s status as human beings in relation to men. At best, that means she has to admit that her partner has a Madonna/whore complex, and worse, she has to accept the fact that he doesn’t see her as a full human being but rather a set of essentialized characteristics. Fourth, she may look back over their sexual relationship and remember things that suggest that her partner was treating her or thinking about her like the women are treated and thought about in porn. At a minimum, she will begin to doubt every aspect of her sexual relationship and wonder whether it was ever based on true affection. Fifth, she has to compare herself to the kinds of women one most often sees in porn, and will likely begin to have doubts about how attractive she is or has been to her partner, and will also likely begin to have serious self-esteem problems and self-doubt that she didn’t have before. Finally, she will wonder how she can stay in a relationship in which her trust has been violated and in which she will never be sure that she is seen as a full human being.
What about the “lucky” women who find someone who actually does respect their feelings and does not use porn in the relationship? Good deal for those women, right? It would be, but there is always the lingering worry that their partner has been exposed to pornography, has absorbed its messages, and secretly wishes to recreate what he’s seen in porn. She will always wonder whether she is actually attractive to him, she will always compare herself to the kinds of women he has masturbated to all his life, she will always wonder whether he secretly desires more of the kinds of scenarios he has used to reach orgasm since boyhood. And rightly so. Orgasm is an extremely powerful conditioning device. What we pair with orgasm we tend to prefer. Or maybe she’ll wonder whether she ought to distance herself as much as possible from the kinds of sex he has seen in porn. Maybe he thinks there are “two kinds of women,” and only the good ones, the non-whores, are worthy of dating, while the other type are there for him to use sexually via the internet. Either way, she won’t feel free to express her own sexuality naturally.
Women in all of these types of relationships are stuck in a terrible conundrum: they want their sexual relationships to be loving and special, and therefore they probably want to make their partners happy, but they worry that doing so would require them to allow themselves to be treated like women are treated in porn. In all of these cases, the entirety of the issue revolves around men’s sexuality and their sexual desires, with women having to conform their own sexual behaviors to the desires pornography and the Madonna/whore complex have created in men. Women’s sexuality is entirely absent from the picture (more on that in the next post).
Men who use porn often approach their sexual experiences in vastly different ways from men who don’t. I’ve met plenty of dudes who claim that they can make the distinction between porn and real life, but I don’t believe it’s as easy as all that. There is a clearly one-sided dynamic in porn in which the woman is there to fulfill the desires of the man, not the other way around. The fact that she pretends to be pumped about whatever she’s doing is just another part of that dynamic; actual depictions of female pleasure in porn are about as common as Civil War re-enacters that aren’t racists, but men expect women to look enthusiastic about what’s being done to them in porn, or else it just isn’t fun. I mean, who wants to feel guilty about using someone like a blow-up doll? In porn, the woman’s body is there for the viewing and for the using, and it is moved around and positioned for the pleasure of the man. Female pleasure is at best a niche interest, and is most often either completely disregarded or faked for the man’s enjoyment. There’s no love in porn, either. It’s purely about male lust and female acquiescence, and that’s the mild stuff. I won’t even begin to get into the ever-increasing array of porn that features women being choked, having their heads shoved into toilets, or being slapped and called filthy names. I’m not going to claim that men who watch porn will come to bed with real women and recreate what they’ve seen in porn down to the last detail, but I will argue that having your orgasm tied to such images over long periods of time tends to seep into real sexual experiences. Men often unknowingly treat their partners in ways that make them uncomfortable because they’ve had more experience seeing how the women in porn react to certain behaviors than they have with real women. Any woman can tell whether the man she’s sleeping with is a serious porn user. What more proof do you need?
Pornography creates conflicting expectations that destroy the ability for men and women to meet as equals and use their sexuality to express their affection for each other. It creates dichotomies that force women to sublimate their own sexual desires in order to fulfill one of two restrictive and limiting (and usually unsatisfying) roles in sexual relationships with men. It destroys women’s sexual confidence, their sense of emotional and sexual security in their relationships, and their self-esteem. Doesn’t it make sense that a woman who feels secure and comfortable in her sexuality would be more fun to sleep with? If for selfish reasons only, men ought to give that some thought.
Porn breeds shame and fear for men and for women, which drastically impairs communication, and it cripples men and women’s ability to understand each other’s sexuality. That turns out to be a seriously shitty deal for women, but it’s even a lame trade-off for men. The influence of pornography prevents men from experiencing their sexuality and that of women in any but the most limited of ways. I promise, real female sexuality is WAY more interesting than the ridiculously one-dimensional representations of it in porn. Ask any dude who has taken the time to find out. Allowing porn to hinder one’s ability to experience all that human sexuality has to offer is like trading a video game about driving for a Ferrari (I like getting to bring up Ferraris — it makes me think about 1985, plus I felt it was time to stop being so serious). It’s just dumb. Regardless of the ethical and moral reasons to avoid porn, men ought to avoid it for their own benefit if not that of the women they care about.
To be continued…
72 Comments
April 14, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Thanks for writing this. I’m still recovering from the effects of porn. It’s been tough, but worthwhile.
April 14, 2008 at 8:08 pm
I’m not sure if I’m allowed to respond because as you probably know, I have more than a few reasons to support the first amendment and a male’s right to not go insane. My first question to you: Would you rather a man masturbate from imagination rather than outside stimuli? If you would, consider this: imagery and fantasy taken from real experiences and encounters can be more personal and disruptive for a relationship. Porn is unreal in basically every aspect that it delivers; most men don’t remember the last thing they masturbated to, because it’s simply a necessary means to pass time and have an orgasm. I can assure you that most men aren’t searching for porn actresses’ phone numbers. It’s that simple. Now, wacking to images of the girl next door washing her car is a different story. There’s so many deeper levels to this that I can truly consider this suspicious. Women aren’t here to spread their seed which is just another clear distinction from males. For one reason or another, we have to release. Denying a man’s need to release is like denying a woman’s need to have a baby. Now I know there are freaks of nature like syndicalist702, David Koresh, and Jeffery Dahmer that quell the impetus to be a human but you don’t want to associate with these people either, even less. These are the people that you wake up to standing over your bed staring at you while being covered with peanut butter holding a hatchet. You need to realize there’s some things you’ll never understand.
April 14, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Drakkar – That’s faulty logic. Think about it. Women somehow get by without porn when they masturbate, and it doesn’t lead to the demise of their relationships. How about dudes think about the person they are with? Or some imaginary person? I don’t believe that men biologically need some kind of visual or visualization to masturbate, but that the hyper-availability of it makes it likely that they’ll come to consider it as something they’re entitled to. The argument that porn is a preferable substitute to cheating is bullshit. Men, just like women, can take responsibility for their behavior and not do things that will hurt their partner, such as cheating or using porn. The argument that women should allow their mates to use porn as it will prevent them from cheating is just another example of men’s belief in their own entitlement when it comes women’s sexuality. Sorry, but it’s specious and arrogant.
April 14, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Compared to Koresh. That’s a new one. I lead a healthy, happy sex life without using porn by a man who claims we all need it to get off. Correction, drak, YOU need it to get off.
And I’m the freak? Get real.
April 14, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Just so you know, I don’t preach what I don’t practice. I’ve fully disclosed to my wife that I masturbate to porn. A typical conversation goes like this: Me: “Do you want to have sex?” Her: “Not tonight.” Me: “Ok, I’m going to go jack-off in the living room.” Her: “Ok, don’t stay up too late.” Me: “Ok.” Perfect harmony. I don’t complain that we don’t have enough sex; she doesn’t complain about feeling like she has to have it all the time…and still…when we do, it’s always amazing!
April 14, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Deuce, I’ve always welcomed a woman’s right to wack-off. Fair is fair. Would you rather a man wack-off to real life images stored or porn? Or are you stating that a person shouldn’t masturbate either?
April 14, 2008 at 8:52 pm
I’m saying that people can wack off all they want, but that they ought to make sure they aren’t hurting anyone in the process. Your wife may be OK with you doing so, which I wonder about, since porn use in men causes complex issues in relationships that people aren’t always aware of, but that doesn’t change the fact that the porn industry is detrimental to the people involved in it. You’ll see. Wait for the next post.
April 14, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Drak… As usual, you’re not making any sense. You have consistently demonstrated both your inability to think beyond stereotypes -and- a lack of any concrete knowledge of this subject beyond parroting the tired old “oh it’s an intrinsic impulse” horse manure that evolutionary psychologists swear by (probably to excuse, rather than analyze, ape-like behavior), all the while insulting those of us who use the intelligence and empathy – just as intrinsic as our primordial impulses – to reason and analyze and thus exert control over ourselves and our impulses. You seem to have serious beef with that. Having impulses is one thing. Insisting on engaging in ape-like behavior that we have the intelligence to rationalize and counteract is lazy and irresponsible. To surmise that I’m some kind of freak because I use my mental strength to control myself is just plain nuts. You have the same mental capacities I do, except you have elected not to use them. How does that make me a freak akin to David Koresh?
Don’t piss on me because I’m not afraid to examine my own behavior. Don’t hate me because I’m not lazy and complacent. Look in the mirror.
April 14, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Analysis to the point of paralysis. I know you all want things to be more complex because it makes life more interesting, but sometimes it’s just not.
April 14, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I could say you want things to be simpler than they are because when things are simpler they’re easier to deal with. Just wait until the next post. I think I may have done this backwards, since people seem to want to argue with me about this one about stuff I plan to write in the next one.
April 14, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Wait a minute, dude. You are telling me this scenario doesn’t amount to disregard for your wife’s feelings? “Hey, wanna do it? No? OK, I’m going to go jack off to naked pictures of someone else then.” I don’t pretend to speak for your wife, but that sure isn’t how I’d want to be approached.
April 15, 2008 at 1:56 pm
What’s wrong with celibacy anyhow?
Other than a brief period in 2004, I have been celibate since my divorce in 1997. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, suicidally lonely at others, yet here I am!
Quit paying attention to the nasty little thing, and ultimately, it will leave you alone (most of the time). But regardless, you have NO right to rape the image or memory or even concept of another human being, much less their actual personae. And let’s face it…when you fantasize about someone who doesn’t want you, that’s exacly what it is!
Cold showers and diving into the world’s problems can help get your mind away from the pervision. And if the beast (lust) gets too bad – drink your way to unconsciousness!
April 15, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Her understanding is based on trusting me when I explain it. I wacked last night I can’t remember what I looked at.
April 15, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Women generally don’t respond enthusiastically to being asked point blank if they want to do it. I’d probably say no on principle, since it’s the least sensitive approach I can imagine. Also, who wants to have sex with someone who is just as happy to go jack off to images of any random shit on the internet as to be with them? I don’t believe women naturally have lower sex drives than men, but I do believe that their desire to engage in sex can be suppressed when they feel that their partner doesn’t consider it important to make an effort to understand their sexuality and doesn’t value their feelings with regard to sex. And there’s nothing like using porn to let your partner know you don’t care about their feelings or understanding the true nature of female sexuality.
April 15, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Also, in response to your first post, I don’t want to have a baby.
The fact that you don’t remember what you jacked off to is supposed to be a source of comfort to your wife? I might look at that differently; what kind of empathy do you have for people when you can use images of women being ill-treated and not even remember what they looked like? I know some women take comfort in considering themselves superior to the women in porn, and the fact that their partners don’t see them as the same kind of woman they see in porn, but to me that just sucks. It means you have a Madonna/whore complex to some degree, and I’d prefer to be a person rather than one of two types. I’m busy today but I’m planning to cover this in the next post. Maybe I’ll have to get on it.
April 15, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I don’t ask point blank. I’ll try wooing first but I’ll know right away if she’s too sleepy, etc. It’s better for everyone that I wack off because what’ll happen is that I’ll get pissed off and then she’ll get pissed off I’m pissed off that we can’t have sex and then it’ll turn into a fight, etc. There’s no girl on Earth that could possibly want to have sex more than myself. No woman could ever keep up. I’m not “just as happy” to go wack-off than be with her. I’m happy that we’re not fighting the age-old battle of “why can’t we have sex?” I don’t understand her sexuality? I’m fully aware that women need emotional closeness and intimacy before physical contact. You seem to not want to understand the male sexuality. You would seemingly rather a person jackoff to fantasies about real life people that they encounter rather than naked soap operas (that’s basically what they are). I don’t jackoff to foreign porn because those girls are indeed slaves and look very unhappy about it. The girl has to look excited and zealous or else I’m not interested. The porn I watch contains zero ill-treated women in it, that’s a fact.
April 15, 2008 at 7:59 pm
I do try to understand male sexuality. I think porn has misdirected it and warped it, and probably taken away some of what it can be. As for whether there are women being ill-treated in porn, I’ll get to that next. I hate to say this, but there is no way to know for sure whether women were being abused in the porn you’ve watched. It’s statistically highly probable that you’ve unknowingly watched porn in which a woman was being coerced, whether she looked enthusiastic or not. Just because this is America doesn’t mean women in domestic porn aren’t being abused.
April 16, 2008 at 8:16 am
Strangely enough, I can masturbate without porn. Porn isn’t necessary. Satisfying your sexual needs isn’t wrong and you don’t need to exploit women to do it.
Masturbation: The only safe sex :)
April 16, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Deuce, I need you to define what you mean by “coerced”. Your argument is eerily similar to that of anti-abortionists/birth control. A woman chooses to be in porn much in the same way that she chooses to use birth control or have an abortion. If we take away a woman’s right to be jackhammered by Rocco Sefredi, we might as well take away her right to have an abortion.
Hairylegs- What do you imagine while masturbating w/o porn? So many more variables are weighing in versus a 2-D image of a crotch and penis. To me, wacking w/o porn is more damaging (from a fidelity standpoint) than with porn. Again, it’s hard to explain but with porn, a person relies solely on the senses- and it’s about as detached from reality and possibility than any other form. W/o porn, a person is forced to recall from memory whatever/whoever it is that turns them on. Usually this “turn on” is going to be someone encountered since a person recalls that last time they “sensed” something erotic to get turned on. I hope you see where I’m going with this and maybe then you can see this could potentially become problematic.
April 16, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I’m writing that post right now. Check in an hour or so.
April 17, 2008 at 1:34 am
Drakkar, you don’t have to imagine anything to masturbate, you just do it.
April 17, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Nine Deuce–I think asking point blank whether a person wants to have sex or not can work quite well in a relationship. Works well for my boyfriend and I at least. It’s straightforward, unassumptive, and in my experience only helps build trust.
Drakkar–Please stop it with the gender essentialism. I guarantee you there are women out there who can more than keep up with your sex drive, however high it is. I may not be one of them, you may have never met one of them, but I guarentee you they’re there. Also, there are plenty of women who do not need emotional closeness or intimacy for sex. Please desist in getting your information about sex from Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus books. As I read the other day (I wish I could remember where), “there is nothing so much like a man as a woman. There is nothing so much like a woman as a man.”
April 17, 2008 at 4:28 pm
genevieve – Indeed, we (men and women) are more alike than many of us are willing to admit.
April 17, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Genevieve – To each her own. I’d be a little taken aback.
April 17, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Genevieve- I totally agree that asking to have sex builds trust- which is precisely why my wife and I agreed to it. If she does want sex, then the wooing and intimacy commences. It’s the best of both worlds.
I’m shocked to learn that some women don’t need closeness and have my sex drive. I speak in generalizations because I’m too lazy to write disclaimers and shit. So, yes, I realize there’s some Cambodian girl in Denmark that likes to have sex as much as me. I’m shocked that you didn’t read into that.
April 17, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Nine Deuce–Oh, I know. I was just pointing out that this method certainly works for some people.
Drakkar–I’m guessing it’s a bit more frequent than “some Cambodian girl in Denmark.” And you’re surprised that I didn’t read that you don’t believe your generalizations to be 100% true through statements like: “There’s no girl on Earth that could possibly want to have sex more than myself. No woman could ever keep up.” Seems like it’s pretty clear-cut in your mind. If you want to leave room for ‘exceptions’ to the ‘rule,’ don’t speak in absolutes.
April 21, 2008 at 6:10 am
First time on this blog, it’s great!
Alas, why do you people bother arguing with this Dick-I mean errr Drakkar idiot? He will never get it. Don’t bother.
Anyway, your posts are great. I would push even further and not say to men “at least think of how porn is bad for YOU, even if you don’t care about women.” How about this: let’s not address men who don’t give two shits about women, eh? Why give them positive attention or credit? If men aren’t putting women’s needs, emotions, and such above their incessant need to masturbate to imagery that essentially has nothing to do with women’s sexuality in the first place then they are frankly not worthy of existence on this planet, let alone a relationship with a woman. I mean, who cares about men when we already see how porn perpetuates the oppression of women anyway? Shouldn’t that be enough for men to stand up and oppose porn? I guess not, since their entitlement and power and privilege is more important and relies on women’s subordination. Hence certain males’ adamant defense of porn.
Your arguments about how porn ruins relationships are spot on. My sister once had a relationship with a guy who was using porn behind her back. He had a serious addiction, and it ruined their relationship and ate at her self-esteem, to sum up.
April 21, 2008 at 6:39 am
rychousmama – Thanks! As to my arguing with Drakkar, I still hold out hope that I can get a few people to think about things from new perspectives. I’m walking a fine line here, being a rad feminist and trying to convince non-rad feminists that my worldview is worth giving up their privileges and dearly held assumptions for. I may be driving myself crazy, but I may also be planting seeds in places I never expected to, know what I mean? I don’t expect Drakkar or any other porn user who frequents my blog to drop everything and join the cause, but I do hope I can make them reconsider the impact of their actions, if only for their own benefit. Even if that doesn’t amount to the end of the porn industry as we know it, it might someday, aggregated with other factors (we can hope!), amount to a decline in the relative acceptance which porn now enjoys in our society. Maybe I’m deluding myself, but I’m not ready to give up on all of them just yet (though you are 100% on point on the arrogance of their sense of entitlement to use images of women being exploited). I think my goal on this blog is to get women who don’t identify as feminists to consider doing so and to get men to think about their unexamined privileges, as well as to interact with other feminists, so it’s often difficult to know where to draw the line.
April 22, 2008 at 10:26 pm
A lot of men think like Drakkar, but fortunately, good women with good sex drives don’t marry them…or sleep with them. I don’t think that Drakkar would be on a feminist blog arguing for his “right” to look at porn if he didn’t feel a little guilty and defensive. You’ve planted the seed.
Anyway, I appreciate this blog more than you could ever know. My man and I have a relationship built on trust and respect. I do believe he may very well be more radically feminist than me – “don’t worry about make-up,” and “I don’t care if your legs are shaved,” not to mention a disgust with porn (but a very, very healthy sex drive) demonstrate that.
Unfortunately, even some of the most feminist individuals I know still support porn without recognizing the damaging role it can play in a relationship. It’s good to get the message out there for both men and women that a healthy sexual relationship can exist entirely without pornography.
April 23, 2008 at 4:14 am
I’m sorry about this but I happened to stumble upon this blog and got very confused by it. What do you consider “Porn” Images specifically depicting sex? Or any image of a Nude female or male? It seems that you only communicate in generalizations that leave me very unclear as to what to think. I find the female form one of the most breathtakingly beautiful things in the universe to experience. Does that mean I get sexually aroused every time I see a depiction of a naked woman? No I do not. If I care to masturbate I often think of intimate encounters from my past moment frozen in my memory of particular passion or significance. So are these thoughts pornographic? Do they abuse the women I remember, is it objectification to hold on to those moments in time even thought the relationships are long past into history? I have further questions about what does sexually arouse me. I may see a woman walking with her child holding hands and the way she looks at her child will almost move me to tears I may feel a deep visceral longing for that kind of love to be in my life. I might see an old couple holding hands setting on a park bench smiling at one another as she carefully straightens his collar upswept by the wind. That leaves me painfully aware of what I do not have. My yearning for a companion someone to touch to love to grow old with is as powerful as any sex desire I can ever imagine. It leaves me empty and feeling guilty for the desire. Is this better or am I just as guilty as the man who sees nothing but the shell of a human and lusts after it.
April 23, 2008 at 4:18 am
Akotha – I’m using the term “porn” to refer to the vast majority of images and videos produced in the mainstream pornography industry. (I’ve elaborated on that a bit in the fourth post.) What you’ve described here doesn’t fit into my definition of porn at all. In fact, what you’re discussing are exactly the kinds of alternatives I point to when people ask me what they ought to do instead of using porn.
April 23, 2008 at 5:24 am
Bill, that’s totally unhealthy. Avoiding sexual urges by indulging in addictions and stress triggering is not the answer. Self-control is one thing, deprivation is quite another.
April 24, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I totally understand what you mean Nina Deuce. Thanks for the response. I guess I wrote what I did because I’ve seen so many male commenters not willing to listen to women (unless said women believe in the things they do).
Oh, and I don’t mean to sidetrack the topic here, but I am curious about the banner picture at the top of the page. What is the significance?
Later!
April 24, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I have to admit that it has little significance. I took the picture on a street in Lanzhou, China. They were doing a demonstration of a hair care product and people were crowding around as if there were celebrities present. The fascination with it just seemed bizarre, as does the fascination with the majority of women’s grooming products.
April 24, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Drakkar, I’m just going to say that the only person of whom I could honestly say that I’d ever expect to wake up and see him leaning over my bed, covered in peanut butter and holding a hatchet, is also someone who absolutely and without question uses a lot of porn. Just sayin’. And yes, this guy exists.
April 26, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Great post.
April 28, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Wow, so are there really guys out there who don’t watch porn? Given that they aren’t right-wing religious types who are probably either closet homosexuals or sadistic perverts? Maybe it’s because I’m 19, but I find it hard to believe that any average man with a healthy sex drive would turn down porn due to ethical issues. Even *I* look at porn for fun sometimes, despite knowing how degrading and rather disgusting it can be sometimes.
April 28, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Most dudes do look at porn, but I know a few who either aren’t into it or who don’t use it because their partners ask them not to.
April 30, 2008 at 2:38 am
I’m really interested in your feelings about bishonen and yaoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi). Like the males in your first post, I watched it with girlfriends, and later watched it alone. It was interesting, because my boyfriend watches his “lesbian” porn and I watch my yaoi. We both don’t force each other to watch porn, and we have a good relationship.
April 30, 2008 at 5:02 am
I’d have to say I don’t have an opinion yet since I’m not familiar enough with the subject to form one. I will, however, say that lesbian porn for the most part is not really lesbian porn. Your boyfriend likes to watch straight women pretend to be lesbians for a male onlooker’s pleasure. I’m usually pretty leery of anyone being sexually excited by cartoons or computer-generated images of people that don’t resemble real humans. I mean, isn’t that a little unnatural? I think the natural state of things is for people to be attracted to people, not to dolls and cartoons, which is where porn and most media take us.
April 30, 2008 at 5:37 am
Funny. My girlfriend hasn’t complained about it in the last two years.
April 30, 2008 at 5:41 am
Just because someone has come to accept that they have to tolerate it doesn’t mean it doesn’t cause some of the feelings I’ve described. See part 6.
April 30, 2008 at 6:14 am
So how come she’s the one who brings it home for us to watch?
April 30, 2008 at 6:52 am
Like I said, read part 6. I’m not telling anyone what to do, so you two can get into whatever porn happens to make you happy. I’m just trying to get people to see beyond the appearances in porn and realize what it means for women’s place in our society.
May 5, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Im this woman:
“What about the woman who believes she’s in a relationship with a man who cares enough about her feelings to stop using porn, only to find out he’s been lying to her about it? ”
Your post was wonderful. Thankyou.
May 8, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I think something unstated is a theory that men require more visual stimuli. It is a common one in sexual psych. Its why blowjobs are better if you can see them happening. I look at porn myself and have a healthy sex life. Your posts also seems to rely on the condition that people are stupid. The effected people you describe all sound like idiots.
Akotha, porn depends on both the intent of the viewer and the producer. If the person making the images intends them to be sexualized they are porn. As a photographer I collect images I find inspiring or would like to try and mimic and occasionally find a picture hidden in porn that is actually a genuinely good nude. Though I could look at an image which was intended to be art and be very turned on by it.
May 9, 2008 at 11:55 pm
A relevant pic…
http://www.photobasement.com/porn-hurts-everyone/
May 15, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Your words are very acurate. Acurate enough for me to stop watching porn. After a wank I’d be less interested in having sex. My partner and I don’t speak about it by I’m pretty sure she can tell (something to do with me pestering her less, no doubt). I want to have a child with her which means having as much sex as possible to fight against nature’s odds. She’s a wonderful woman and she does repeatedly say she feels unsexy. Whatever part porn has to play in that I have no wish for it to be a part of our lives anymore.
Anyway, good blog, good shit. Keep it up.
May 15, 2008 at 8:36 pm
A dude – You’ve made my day.
June 10, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Thank you so much for articulating what I was trying to get across to my partner. He is well aware of my feelings regarding porn, and I was under the impression that an agreement had been reached based on mutual understanding and respect. But after catching him “red-handed”, I realised that he had only agreed to try not to get caught. Epic fail!
Worse, he attempted to trivialise the issue, which only added to my hurt. He refused to acknowledge exactly what had been done under the defence of “I was just having a wank! Sheesh!”
I was starting to doubt myself, and to wonder if I was over-reacting. Was I really just an insecure hysterical woman? I knew I had these awful feelings of betrayal and hurt but wasn’t able to express them articulately. Thank you for reigniting the fire that was dwindling under the blanket of self-doubt. I have a right to be hurt, to feel betrayed, to be angry and most of all, absofuckinglutely disgusted at the knowledge that the man I love and respect could “get off” on the objectification, exploitation and degradation of my gender. *retch*
He has read this too, and now understands (I hope!) the issue. Who knows really though. I trusted him to be honest, and not to keep major things like this from me. Without that trust, I guess I don’t really know if he is just playing lip service in the hope that I stop looking at him as though I am about to vomit on his feet.
I hope I can believe him, and I hope that he has really understood what you have written here. Thank you for putting into words what I was feeling.
June 10, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Username – I am glad to have written something of use to you at such a time. I’ve been in your situation more than once and it isn’t cool. Don’t let anyone tell you your feelings aren’t justified, and don’t be afraid to insist on being treated with respect in your relationships. There aren’t a ton of dudes out there who understand this sort of thing, but they exist, and we shouldn’t tolerate the behavior of the ones who don’t.
June 11, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Username – I forgot to suggest this in my last comment, but you might want to have your partner take a loot at some of Robert Jensen’s work on porn. Some dudes just haven’t given the whole thing a lot of thought. I know plenty myself who, after reading up on the industry and its effects on society and on people’s personal relationships, decide that it isn’t something they want to be involved in. But don’t take that to be me making excuses for men using porn. We should all feel free to duck out of these situations and find someone we don’t have to teach to respect women.
June 12, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Aaaaahhhhhhhh! Man, after reading some of what Drakkar Noir had to write I’m too fucking exhausted to read the other comments. All I have to say is this. It’s sad that Drakkar somehow sees it necessary to watch porn to masturbate (OH THOSE POOR CAVEMEN BEFORE THE TIME OF MOVING PICTURES!). The one good thing about his comments is that it shows us how deep porn has embedded itself within the American psyche and how damaging it is to one’s state of mind; so damaging to the point that Drakkar NEEDS it to masturbate.
June 12, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Jack – Indeed. Sexual dysfunction at its finest. A symptom of a sick society over all, if you ask me.
urm, not that you did, or anything. *shrug*
August 5, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Thank you for writing this. You have no idea how much it means for someone to understand. your section on the woman who disocvers her partner has been using porn behind her back is the most scarily accurate thing i have ever read.
thankyou for taking a stand.
August 8, 2008 at 3:14 am
It’s late in the post, but honestly:
Reading what you say, it sounds like your idea of “real female sexuality” is “sex that is only and purely focused on women’s pleasure”.
Which, nothing personal, is not my idea of fun sex. Or even good sex. Just lousy sex.
Spending an hour and a half on foreplay designed entirely to please her (30 minutes of which is probably going to be something horribly boring like my face in her crotch), and then maybe a quick bit of vanilla penetration…yeah…no. Boring, uninteresting, and selfish on the part of the woman.
If it’s wrong for men to want their partners to do things to please them, explain to me why you think it’s right for women to demand the same thing?
Obviously, since you’re a woman, you have a vested interest in sex that only focuses on women, but guess what? While, for women, that might be ‘great sex’, for men? That’s terrible, boring, awful sex.
Frankly, if she’s only interested in her own pleasure, she can get a vibrator.
January 15, 2009 at 10:20 pm
I wish there was more people in the world like you, Nine Deuce. Your article has truly helped me, especially now going through something like this. I just hope everything will end well and that he can change and stop with the lies.
January 23, 2009 at 5:40 pm
D,
Again, I’m late to the party, but you’re assuming that the kind of degrading, pornified actions mentioned here are the only way men can find pleasure.
Sticking your dick in something is not the only way to get sexual satisfaction.
Engaging in humiliating acts separate from “vanilla penetration” is not your God-given right as a Male Who Deserves His Pleasure.
Orgasm and ejaculation is not the end-all, be-all, and certainly does not equate to sexual satisfaction– as you yourself implied!
Men can get pleasure, although possibly not orgasm/ejaculation (depends on the man) from a number of erogenous zones around the body.
You don’t have to ejaculate on a girl’s face, thrust your cock down her throat, or stuff your dick up her ass in order to be sexually satisfied.
Fallacious argument much?
June 12, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Ok, I’m probably gonna get flamed but oh well. Firstly, I’m female… I had a massive problem with my ex looking/fapping over porn he looked at on the internet. It caused many arguements between us and I repeatedly told him that I didn’t like him doing it, he went on to say that he wouldn’t do it again.. Yeah right, shock horror I caught him in the act many times after he said he wouldn’t do it and I ’snooped’ through our computer history to see if he was still looking at porn sites. And after I found out that he was still doing it, I felt like he had betrayed my trust.. But then, I thought to myself, ‘Ive betrayed his trust by snooping through his computer to check up on him’. So I couldn’t use that arguement with him anymore. I just didn’t like it, it disgusted me..
However, my current partner, told me when we first got together that he likes porn, it’s ‘his’ time, his release.. And I’m ok with that. I don’t have any problems at all with him having his little fap sessions and sometimes I get included in these sessions… But I won’t go into detail. I think I’m so okay with it this time because he was completely honest with me, he doesn’t try to hide it from me, he ‘includes’ me in it etc etc. Oh, and he doesn’t look at any of the choking, slapping stuff even though I don’t mind a bit of ‘roughness’ myself. What he sees in the stuff he watches, he doesn’t try to ‘re-enact’ in the bedroom when he is with me, we have a more than healthy sex life as it is. Yes, he watches ALOT of porn but really, I think I’m more ‘open minded’ and ‘kinkier’ than him sometimes.
I do agree with some of the things that were mentioned in the post and I can fully understand why women feel the way they do, being female myself and I really do feel for all the women who have gone through so much suffering because of it.
I’ve accepted the fact that men will watch porn, fap whatever else no matter what. It doesn’t mean they love us any less. Even when we tell them that we don’t want them doing it. Why change the person you love?
June 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm
You don’t have to accept that men use porn. And if they continue to use it after you’ve told them it hurts you, then it does mean that they don’t love or respect you as much as they ought to. I highly suggest you read part 8 of my porn series.
June 24, 2009 at 2:42 am
FYI, that EXACT SAME conversation happens in my house from time to not-infrequent time. (And like you, “when we do it’s always amazing.”)
But believe me, I am not cool with it. And he knows that. He simply chooses not to think about the fact that he knows it. And I’ve long since grown tired of reminding him. Reminding him I don’t like it isn’t fun. And neither is tolerating it– let’s face it, it’s like an unspoken bribe. Women are basically told, “accept this or Something Bad will happen (ie: he’ll cheat because obviously you can’t/won’t/don’t provide “enough sex”).
So: not fun either way.
So basically: yeah, I “tolerate” it, and there’s no apparent strife about it… because all of the strife happens in MY head. And I am 100% willing to bet your wife feels something similar, and I don’t even know her. Just sayin’.
June 24, 2009 at 11:40 am
I also heard- though it may a rumour- that masturbation existed before porn was a click away from every idiot who has a computer. No really, I kid ye not. Men and women have managed to get themselves off without needing pictures of another human being’s humiliation. Imagine that!
It’s almost as if the ‘oh you hate masturbation you prude’ ‘argument’ is a attempt to shame anti-porn women into shutting up…. who’d have thunk it, eh?
June 24, 2009 at 11:42 am
“To me, wacking w/o porn is more damaging (from a fidelity standpoint) than with porn. ”
Oh bullshit. You’re in charge of your own behaviour, *you* control whether or not you are faithful, not your hand, not your cock, not your precious porn. Take responsibility, listen to the women who speak bravely about how porn has damaged them, and do the right thing.
All it takes is courage and a spine.
June 25, 2009 at 1:03 am
Hear, hear!
June 25, 2009 at 1:49 pm
word
August 18, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I know this is an old conversation but I have to ask–this question’s burnin’ in me brain. Dude. You honestly don’t believe women in porn are real? Point. You missed it. It doesn’t matter whether she’s next door or lives across the country and is brought to you via Internet video, if you’re fantasizing about ANYONE but your wife, you’re cheating on her.
I’m saying this more for other dudes who will come along with the same question than I am for this guy, since he’s probably long since moved on from the conversation. But guys pretending the “porn chick” isn’t real is exactly one of the objections radfems have to pornography in the first place. Congratulations, you’ve just dehumanized a woman. Aren’t you proud of yourself?
August 18, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Who. You looked at a who. Not a what.
Dude, you need help. I hope you got it, but I don’t hold out much hope.
August 19, 2009 at 12:01 am
Um, most accounts I’ve heard from women in the sex industry–porn OR prostitution–include some kind of statement that they got into it because it was great money. That tells me they obviously needed to make a lot of money. Economic coercion is still coercion. If the only way I as a woman can make a living wage and have something left over for long-term plans is to pimp myself out to the highest bidder, there is something seriously wrong with that. All a guy has to do is go learn how to lay bricks, and he doesn’t even have to worry about sexual harassment while he’s doing it, unlike the few women who try to break into construction.
I mean, that’s all society has for us. “Wanna make more than shit wages? Give it up, slut.” Pardon the pun, but screw that.
August 19, 2009 at 12:03 am
I used to have a great sex drive. I probably could have kept up with Drakkar with no problem. It’s declined in recent years, but something about gaining a hundred pounds and being treated like shit (which was not because of the weight gain–the guy who did that to me is into fat women) kind of shut me off. I’m pretty sure I will be able to wake it back up when I get healthier, though.
I’m even visually stimulated–go figure.
Then again, I get angry and express that anger like society says guys are “supposed” to do. Have caught no end of crap from both men AND women about that one.
What do you know, we don’t all fit into our proper little pigeonholes.
August 19, 2009 at 12:04 am
I needed closeness AND had your sex drive. Problem was that when I expressed the sex drive I was usually dumped, as 9-2 described. On the rare occasion I wasn’t, there was usually some other problem with the relationship, and with the guy, too.
You can want to screw someone’s brains out or get your own screwed out and still want to cuddle before and after. Man *or* woman.
November 12, 2009 at 12:53 am
This is terrible, truly.
But it’s nice, in a strange way, to see a comment that relates IDENTICALLY to my own thoughts, feelings, and situation.
He knows I’m not okay with it, but if I push it, I’m being ridiculous, and selfish, and I don’t understand.
Which, of course, I really do.
But that doesn’t matter, right?
November 12, 2009 at 1:12 am
You aren’t wrong. You can explain why. Don’t tolerate that shit, and men will have to face the choice between porn and being alone.